After leaving the Marine Corps, Megan used the GI Bill to finance her MBA. With her savings, she and her husband invested in their first house. When they moved into their second home, they rented it out and then sold it. They acquired and flipped several types of properties since then.
A career in real estate gave Megan the flexibility she needed to spend more time with her family. Just a few years into this business, she now has an impressive portfolio. Megan also hosts a local real estate meetup that has awarded her new professional relationships and opportunities.
Megan Greathouse Real Estate Background:
- Real estate investor and mom
- In 2019 she left her W2 to focus on family and building her real estate portfolio
- She started by turning her first home into a rental in 2015 & buying her first outright rental in 2017
- Portfolio consist of 10 rental units, farmland, 2 flips, & 1 wholesale
- Based in St. Louis, MO
- Say hi to her at: www.linkedin.com/in/mkgreathouse/
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Best Ever Tweet:
“There’s a lot of power in having a very strong network” – Megan Greathouse.
Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless. This is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast where we only talk about the best advice ever. We don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff. With us today, Megan Greathouse. How are you doing Megan?
Megan Greathouse: I’m doing awesome, Joe. It is so exciting to be here. Thank you.
Joe Fairless: Well, I’m glad to hear that, and looking forward to our conversation. A little bit about Megan. She’s a real estate investor and mom. In 2019, she left her W2 to focus on family and building her real estate portfolio. She started by turning her first home into a rental in 2015, and then buying her first rental outright in 2017. Now she’s got 10 rental units, she’s got some farmland, she’s done two flips, and one wholesale deal. Based in St. Louis, Missouri. With that being said, Megan, do you want to give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?
Megan Greathouse: Sure. To go way back, I grew up as a military kid, and then after college, ended up joining as an officer in the Marine Corps myself. So I did four years of active duty. And while I was there, I was reading a lot of books about personal finance. I was very interested in what do I want to do after the Marine Corps and what do I want to do long term for myself and my future family, and real estate kept coming up. So after leaving the Marine Corps, I actually used my GI bill to get an MBA, and after saving a lot in the Marine Corps, especially during a deployment, and then saving a lot from my nicely paid post MBA job, we felt like we were in a good position, my husband and I, to buy some real estate. I really was interested in educating myself, so I took the lead on that.
We tested the waters, like you said, by turning our first home into a rental for a couple of years when we moved to our second home, and then ultimately sold that because it didn’t cash-flow as well as we’d like. But it was the learning opportunity we needed to move on.
And then after that, I just started buying small multi-families. And the big catalyst for me to actually get started was having our first kid back in 2016. That was what, despite liking my job, liking my career, liking the people I worked with, really motivated me to find a way to create wealth and a career for myself that was completely flexible and on my own terms. Because I wanted more time with these kids.
Joe Fairless: Okay. And first off, thank you for those four years that you spent in the Marine Corps and going overseas to help keep us all safe. I just spoke to an active duty marine gentleman right before you. So I don’t know what the theme is… I’m glad to be talking to you, and I was glad to be talking to him. So let’s talk about something that stood out to me when I introduced you, because it’s in your bio… And we’ll backtrack too, but I just want to ask about this right now. I said 10 rental units, two flips, one wholesale deal. And then what else did I say?
Megan Greathouse: Farmland.
Joe Fairless: Farmland, what is going on with farmland? So tell us about this farmland investment.
Megan Greathouse: This one was a little more of an experiment for us, I guess. We’ve always liked the idea of having some lands that we could use for our family eventually. And my husband likes hunting. So we decided, especially during COVID, when things were kind of shut down, and just working differently, that we were going to look into some of it. And we said, “You know what? We could go in and we could look for some land to flip. We could look for some land where the income from the farming kind of helps out…” Generally, what we’ve seen in our area is that it doesn’t cover everything, but obviously, the farming rent helps. And potentially, we could even find something where we go and spend time with our kids on weekends and such. And what we ended up finding was more of a short to mid-term property, 60 acres, about an hour and a half from St. Louis. And we thought eventually, we could potentially build something here. It’s kind of vacant farmland, so it doesn’t have a house on it for weekends with family or anything. And that would be a way to flip it. Or we happened to meet a great broker who really knew the values and was able to bring us something under market value. So we said, “Or we can test this out and kind of flip it more short term.”
So right now, we’re deciding what we do with that going forward, but that one is a lot more of an experiment and it’s a lifestyle thing, and it’s one of those cool things where you get yourself into real estate, you start to understand how it all works, and you get to try new and interesting things, and you get to do things that also have a lifestyle benefit because you understand the power of the options created by real estate. So that’s what we’re doing with that one right now.
Joe Fairless: So you own it and you’re in the process of trying to flip it?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah. So we’re going back and forth between, do we build on it, and then flip it when we’ve put some more money into it and created more of a getaway kind of place? Or do we go ahead and just flip it pretty much as it is. We did some basic cleanup of the land, because the people who owned it previously had not paid much attention to it recently. So we might end up going with the shorter term option right now, just because we’ve got some other opportunities on the horizon, that using that money more quickly would help with.
Joe Fairless: Got it. Alright. So numbers on that are what?
Megan Greathouse: We bought that in just a handful of months ago, at 240. And it’s one of those things where we could turn around and sell it for probably 270 or 280 if we wanted to, in fairly short order, and it wouldn’t be some huge amount that we’d make back on it after commissions… But we’d get a chunk of money back that we could use for other things. And now we’ve got our foot in the door with understanding buying and selling land.
Joe Fairless: What would you do differently knowing what you know now when you purchase the next farmland?
Megan Greathouse: We really do like the idea of holding farmland a little bit longer term and having some personal use component to it. We bought this one thinking, “Sure we could try building something on it.” And then with how far out it is, we realized that’s a pretty big task with everything else we have going on. So I think a future purchase, we would definitely look for something that already has a property on it. If anything, we’re just improving the existing home, because then there’s a lot more personal utility that we can enjoy while we hold the property in the future.
Joe Fairless: Let’s talk about the two flips that you’ve done. Have you exited both of those?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah, those were somewhat earlier on. I definitely prefer buy and hold over flips. But they were kind of those things where as you learn, you try different things and you take advantage of opportunities when they come.
Joe Fairless: And in order to buy and hold, you need money coming in, obviously, as we all know… So if you’re not flipping and wholesaling actively, where’s the money coming from, since you left your W2 job to continue to build on that 10 unit portfolio?
Megan Greathouse: Right now, fortunately, we’ve been able to renovate properties that we bought for long-term buy and hold, and increase rents. So I’m actually in the process right now of refinancing pretty much everything, because we’ll be able to get cash out of those and have lower monthly payments, thanks to these insanely low-interest rates right now. So it’s a pretty sweet deal there. But yes, I did do a couple of flips, because to your point, if you want to keep building capital for more buy and holds, that’s one way to do it. And you already know real estate, and it can be a fun process, so why not?
Joe Fairless: With the new loans that you’re putting on your 10 rental units, is that a portfolio loan? Or are you getting individual loans? What type of service are you working with?
Megan Greathouse: We’re just working with the same lender that we’ve used since the beginning for the one to four-family space. So everything we have is in that space. And these conventional loans, obviously, have some of the best terms out there. So we’re working with the same people we’ve worked with in the past, we have a great relationship. By the time we’re done with these refinances, we’ll have done probably a dozen loans with them, of different types. So yeah, no portfolio loan. We looked at a line of credit, but with the rates as low as they are right now for conventional loans, and the fact that we were a point and a half higher on our current rates, it made sense to do the full-on refinance.
Joe Fairless: Is that a local lender?
Megan Greathouse: It is, yes.
Joe Fairless: Okay. So it was like a credit union or community bank.
Megan Greathouse: It’s a local mortgage lender, and they actually, on top of having just worked with us for three or four years now, the loan officer that I work with is actually one of the sponsors of my local St. Louis real estate meetup, as well. So we have a relationship that works for both of us in many ways.
Joe Fairless: Why do you host a St. Louis meetup?
Megan Greathouse: I think there’s a lot of power in having a very strong network, and I think that in real estate you really have to create that for yourself. When you’re working a W2 job or you work in an office, it’s around you; people are around you, colleagues around you all the time. That’s not the case with real estate investing most of the time. And I am a very outgoing and relationship-driven person, so pretty quickly – I think it was right after I bought my first four-family, I started posting things on the BiggerPockets forum, I got enough people interested in chatting that I said, “Let’s all get together as a group for a beer and talk.” And it naturally evolved over time. And on top of giving me a great resource of people to work with, it’s offered opportunities for me to help others. I’m just a handful of years into this, and it’s really easy for me to talk to some of the newbies at this point and share what I’ve learned just in the few years and be relatable to them right now. And then it’s also created a bit of, I guess, a reputation for me in the area too, because I’m someone who hosts a fairly well-attended meetup at this point and a fairly well-known meetup. And I think it helps me, and it helps me help others and a lot of different ways.
Joe Fairless: Just to learn a little bit more, for someone who’s thinking about starting a meetup. And during the pandemic, obviously, we’re just going to put an asterisk on this conversation, because we’re not having an in-person meetup; I don’t imagine that you’re having in-person meetups.
Megan Greathouse: No, not right now.
Joe Fairless: But just during a time when there’s no pandemic, what specific cause and effect business benefits that you’ve seen as a result of hosting the meetup?
Megan Greathouse: I’ve had a lot of folks come to me with different deals that they’ve found that they think might fit what I’m looking for. I’ve been able to strengthen relationships with some of the folks that I work with for real estate. So my lender, my contractor, my insurance company, my title company – they’re all sponsors, and I think that keeps me kind of top of mind for them in some ways, and allows me to give back to them in ways that keep our relationship really strong, and that makes things easier on me when I work through my real estate deals. And then I’ve met people who will be potential future partners as well. So it’s done a lot. I could probably name three or four other things too.
Joe Fairless: On the fix and flips, going back to those… Did you make money on both of them?
Megan Greathouse: Yes. One of them I made a whole lot less than I anticipated, and I would say that was my true fix and flip. Like I said, I’m a buy and hold investor. So both of these, they started as rentals that I kind of quickly decided I wasn’t going to keep them long term. They were single-families, and I liked the small multi-family space better. But they had multiple exit options when I got into them, so then I went the fix and flip route pretty quickly after buying them and holding them for a short term as a rental.
Joe Fairless: Can you talk about the one that you made a whole lot less on than you thought?
Megan Greathouse: Oh, yes. I actually love this property and this story. And no regrets, because I learned so much… But it was a two and a half story, 1910 build, in an amazing neighborhood in St. Louis City. Walking distance to one of our major universities, Washington University in St. Louis. And I found it actually on BiggerPockets forums. So it was an off-market deal. Another investor was looking to offload it because he was getting ready to invest in another market. And I reached out to him out of curiosity — even though I kind of prefer duplexes and four-families — because his rent was so high. He mentioned is his rent was so high, and we started talking, and it was because he was renting to students and he had kind of a unique model.
So I knew going into it that I probably didn’t want to do the student rentals, but I figured I’ll buy it, I’ll let these students finish their time in the home, and then I’ll renovate it, because there are so many beautiful homes surrounding it that have been updated and maintained and they’re historic. And I was expecting to make about 40,000 at the end of the day. And by the time we finally sold it, after many many delays, I think I eked out 10,000. And that was with my contractor accepting some of their mistakes and taking a hit on their side.
Joe Fairless: Knowing what you know now, what would you do differently, if you were presented a similar opportunity and you decide to buy it?
Megan Greathouse: Knowing what I know now, I think I would be much, much tighter on my timelines and the way that I set those up. And then much tougher on the management of the contractor as well. And I potentially would have switched contractors halfway through if I needed to. Because the vast majority of what came up was major delays that cost money, and holding costs, and everything. And that’s what really ate into my profit at the end of the day.
Joe Fairless: What are some specific things with the contractor in this case that took place?
Megan Greathouse: The contractor actually went through three different project managers during the time of my project. And every single time we switched over, it was just more delays, and more learning curves, and changing of how things were happening.
They also were not on top of their subcontractors. So there are multiple times when I reached out to them and said, “Hey, where are we? Are we done with XYZ?” And they said, “Well, no, because we’re still waiting on the plumber.” Or, “We’re still waiting on this guy or that guy to come in.” And I’d asked them about that. And it’d take two or three weeks before that person who was supposed to come in a couple of days was finally there and getting done what they needed to do. So it just continued to drag out. And I tried to stay on top of my contractor, but I couldn’t seem to make them stay on top of their subcontractors. So that was something I needed to improve. I need to be better at finding contractors who are more on top of it, and/or being willing to fire and hire someone new when those things come up.
Joe Fairless: 10 rental units. On average, what does a rental unit generate in profit each month?
Megan Greathouse: Each of my units net cash-flows after everything about $300 per month is probably where we’re averaging out at this point.
Joe Fairless: And what’s the average price point for what you purchase, each unit?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah. In St. Louis – it can certainly range by neighborhood, of course – anywhere from 50 to 80,000 per unit at purchase. And it definitely varies by neighborhood.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I get. Let’s talk specifics. Let’s talk about the very last deal that you bought. How much was it?
Megan Greathouse: This one I bought for $132,500, and it’s a duplex in a really awesome and popular neighborhood of St. Louis called Dogtown.
Joe Fairless: Dogtown. Alright. Is that an artists and hippie area?
Megan Greathouse: It’s actually more of like old Irish pubs and walking distance to Forest Park and all its attractions.
Joe Fairless: Okay. $132,000 for a duplex. And what’s the rent for each of the units?
Megan Greathouse: So one side, the previous owner had done some basic cosmetic updates… And these are one bed one baths, by the way.
Joe Fairless: Okay, thanks.
Megan Greathouse: They did some basic cosmetic updates, it was nothing too special. But we currently have 700 in rent per month on that one. On the other side, I put about 20 to 25 to really open it up and create a bigger kitchen, and a better flow, and nice cosmetic updates… And that one is currently renting for $900 per month, which I think we were filling that one during COVID. I think we could easily get $1,000 for that one next time around.
Joe Fairless: How do you look at ROI when you’re looking at doing a $25,000 renovation? What must you have from a return standpoint, if any, to justify those cap-ex dollars?
Megan Greathouse: For this one, I knew I was going to do it, because while the one side had been kind of updated, the other side was in really rough shape. So for that one, the side that I updated previously had been renting for I right around $500, maybe 550. And I knew I could get 900 maybe more if I updated it. So that monthly is $300 or $350 per month, maybe more, that I would get on top of if I just rented it as it was. So annually, that’s like $4,200. So if I put in $25,000 to get an extra $4,200 per year, that’s like a 16% or 17% return. So my cash on cash return, I like off the bat when I’m buying something to have greater than 10% cash on cash return. And then when I’m putting work in, I hope I’m getting into the mid-teens on cash on cash return, and then eventually able to refinance out a lot of my money and push that return rate even higher on the cash that I have left in, if any.
Joe Fairless: Do you self manage?
Megan Greathouse: I do.
Joe Fairless: Well, you’ve got some interesting stories for us then, from that…
Megan Greathouse: Indeed. [laughter]
Joe Fairless: What’s something that comes to mind?
Megan Greathouse: So I actually just had my first issue with bedbugs recently. That has never happened to me before and it was a little frightening, honestly. Especially because I had just been in the unit not that long ago. I actually do my best to not go to my units personally as much as I can. I have a really great handyman, a great contractor, a great leasing agent, so I outsource the things that require a lot of run around and time physically at units. And they are excellent about reporting back to me on what’s going on. But I just so happened to have been at this unit previously. So of course, I had, first of all, just the heebie-jeebies for about 48 hours after I found out… And then it’s not cheap.
Joe Fairless: You were in the Marine Corps, right?
Megan Greathouse: I was. I was. But I didn’t ever get bedbugs in the room. [laughter]
Joe Fairless: I know a Marine’s kryptonite now. Thank you.
Megan Greathouse: [laughs] Yeah, I’ve got two young kids. And I just was having these horrible images of dealing with bedbugs in my own home, with a four-year-old and a one-year-old… So I think that’s probably been the worst of it honestly… When you’re dealing with things like that, it’s expensive. It’s one of those things that in a single-family, I think it would 100% make sense to bill it back to a tenant. In a four-family, it’s a little harder, because you just don’t quite know for sure how these things could have spread… So we did our best to maintain boundaries with the tenant and make sure they kind of had some responsibility, but that we also took responsibility, and cleared it up before it became a problem for the whole building. And it was cleared up pretty quickly, and we haven’t had any issues since, but that was probably one of the biggest pit in your stomach feeling when you get the call from someone saying, “I’m going crazy. I’m all itchy and I think I have bedbugs.”
Joe Fairless: Yeah, well. Was it [unintelligible [00:21:35].18] treatments? Is that what they did?
Megan Greathouse: They actually did a heat treatment on it.
Joe Fairless: Heat treatment. Okay.
Megan Greathouse: So there are two units top and bottom on the left, two units top and bottom on the right. They inspected the right and saw no issues. On the left side of the building, they did do chemical treatment in the upstairs unit. In the bottom unit they did the full-on heat treatment, and then they went back for two checks after that.
Joe Fairless: How much did it cost?
Megan Greathouse: I think we were at $1,500 for that.
Joe Fairless: For all of it?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah, for all of it. Well, this is in one of the areas where rents are a little bit lower. And even though these are slightly bigger units, that particular tenant only pays $525 per month. So when you look at the amount going into that unit just in one month from bed bugs that, frankly, they probably brought into the unit, it kind of stinks. But you’ve got to do what you got to do. I’m not going to be a slumlord.
Joe Fairless: There’s a pro tip that I came across, and I learned the hard way with bedbugs… If you’re looking at a property, and the owner has a spray bottle, and it kind of smells like rubbing alcohol, and they spray themselves before and after they go into the unit, then there’s probably a bedbug issue. I didn’t pick up on that until later. Fortunately, I didn’t ever get them, but it was missed in an inspection early, early on in my real estate days… And that spray bottle, I was like, “Wait a second.” And I did a Google search. “Yeah, rubbing alcohol, doesn’t take out an infestation, but it kills them.” That’s why he was spraying his legs before and after.
Megan Greathouse: Oh my gosh, wow. Yeah, there’s your sign now, I guess.
Joe Fairless: There’s your sign. Yep. spray bottles. So what’s your approach when you have a unit that is vacant? Do you have any leasing tips that you’ve come across that have been really helpful for you to fill your units quickly?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah, we actually have a pretty solid process with my leasing agent. And this was one of the issues that I had with property management companies. I’ve worked with a few before I took over and self-managed. And none of them were bad, but I always felt like I had vacancies for a little too long. So I found a really awesome leasing agent who’s just kind of a hustler, and he’s willing to do things my way, and not just stick to something that he’s been taught elsewhere.
So I have written into my lease that we’re allowed to enter the unit to do showings within 30 days of a tenant leaving. And generally, this is happening when it’s a solid tenant, and they’re moving on just because they are moving in with a roommate, or moving for work or something. If it’s been a hairy situation with a tenant, you might not want to actually show while they’re still there. But so far we’ve been able to.
So I have files with pictures and descriptions of all my units, and if I haven’t done any major changes to the units, I’ll just use those existing pictures for the leasing agent to get his advertising out there. And he’ll list the unit three to four weeks before my current tenant leaves, and then about two weeks before the current tenant leaves he will usually ask for an hour or two on a Sunday to do a few showings. Usually, he’s done decent enough phone screenings that by the time he’s done with those showings, he is sending me one or two applicants. I will run them through my own application process. It’s all online. It’s very easy. I do it through [unintelligible [00:24:48].24] so they fill everything out online. We do the background and credit checks all online. And oftentimes, I have a new tenant who has been approved, has sent me their security deposit, and is ready to move in within a few days of the old tenant moving out. So they’re usually lined up and ready for it before my old tenant moves out. And then I get my occupancy inspection done and the cleaning done the day after my old tenant moves out. And a day or two later, the new tenant comes in. So my vacancy is a few days.
Joe Fairless: I’m glad I asked you that question. Thank you for sharing that.
Megan Greathouse: Yeah, sure thing.
Joe Fairless: Taking a step back, what’s your best real estate investing advice ever?
Megan Greathouse: I think use time to your advantage. And with that one, I actually mean, not moving super fast, but the amount of time that you have to build with real estate is always helpful. So for instance, a property that I bought four years ago, just by naturally taking care of it and increasing rents as tenants turned over is now worth almost 50% more than it was when I bought it, thanks to buying in kind of an up and coming area, taking care of it, and increasing rents. So all of a sudden, even though cash flows were maybe early on $100 per door per month, and then $200 and then $300 – the cash flow has grown, but my value has also grown and I’m able to refinance and take cash back out and put that into other rentals. And it’s just amazing, the snowball effect that you have over time with real estate. It’s not “get rich quick,” but it’s quicker than just throwing money in a savings account forever. And there’s a lot of power behind it. You make money in a lot of different ways. So time is actually very helpful in real estate.
Joe Fairless: We’re going to do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Megan Greathouse: Very ready.
Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.
Break: [00:26:37] – [00:27:24]
Joe Fairless: Best Ever book you’ve recently read.
Megan Greathouse: I feel like every other book I read, I’m like, “That’s my favorite book ever.” But I just read Twelve Pillars by Jim Rohn. It was something someone gave to me years ago and I put it on the bookshelf and just recently found it. And it was really great; just mindset and mentality for a successful well-lived life.
Joe Fairless: Best Ever way you like to give back to the community.
Megan Greathouse: I really like to be a networker. Someone who can connect people, someone who can also teach and help others… So I run my real estate meetup, I try to answer all the questions that I get from people who are starting out in this game, or who are pivoting in some way in the field… And then I also co-host a podcast with Josiah Smelser called Multi-family Mavericks. As we’re both looking to scale into larger multi-family, we are taking others who are in the same place along with us and interviewing a bunch of multi-family investors to give everyone a leg up.
Joe Fairless: What’s a bad piece of advice you’ve gotten or heard?
Megan Greathouse: I think anybody who tries to tell you there’s one way to do something is giving you bad advice. Generally speaking, there are many ways to do almost everything in real estate. There are very few black and whites in real estate. And if someone who’s talking to you isn’t giving you the perception that this is what works for them and here’s why, they’re just telling you this is right and that’s wrong, it’s probably bad advice.
Joe Fairless: I love that. So, so true. Not just real estate, right?
Megan Greathouse: True.
Joe Fairless: Just life in general.
Megan Greathouse: Everything.
Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners learn more about what you’re doing?
Megan Greathouse: I am kind of all over the place, but I have an Instagram called @parttimeempire where I really chronicle what I’m doing with real estate. My goal here is not to scale the biggest, fastest. I do want to scale and grow big, but it’s about the lifestyle for me. So @parttimeempire is where you can see how I balance being a mother, being an entrepreneur, being a real estate investor, and having fun along the way.
Joe Fairless: Well, thank you for being on the show. We talked a little bit about farmland, which I was really curious about, so thanks for talking about that. Will you be writing about the exit of that whenever it happens? In Instagram or wherever else?
Megan Greathouse: Yeah, I’ll need to share it. Like I said, we’re still getting the details nailed down, but I’ll have to share it for sure.
Joe Fairless: And then the flips as well as the reasons why you do a meetup, the benefits, some specifics on the duplex that you’ve recently purchased, and why one of the flips didn’t make as much as you wanted because of some management optimization that has since taken place for future deals… So thanks for being on the show. I hope you have a Best Ever day. Talk to you again soon.
Megan Greathouse: Thanks, Joe. You too.
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