JF2428 Mistakes Do Not Signify the End of Your Career-Defining Journey with Matthew Tortoriello

JF2428: Mistakes Do Not Signify the End of Your Career Defining Journey with Matthew Tortoriello

Matthew started his real estate journey at 16 when he purchased a two-family home with his grandmother’s money. Four years later, he bought another property that was a challenge to manage. That experience taught him a lot of lessons that he applied later in his career.

With two other partners, he acquired a two-family house that he managed and renovated. After buying several more units, getting a construction license, and founding a property management agency, they were still looking for new opportunities. That’s when Matthew met a new investor and future partner who helped them take the business to a new level.

 

Matthew Tortoriello Real Estate Background:

  • Full-time real estate investor and property manager
  • 25+ years of real estate experience
  • Portfolio consists of 250 units, flipped 100, & wholesaled over 200
  • Based in Springfield, Mass
  • Say hi to him at: www.yellowbrick.org 
  • Best Ever Book: Recession Proof RE Investing

 

Click here to know more about our sponsors

RealEstateAccounting.co

thinkmultifamily.com/coaching 

Best Ever Tweet:

“Don’t focus on learning everything because you’ll never learn everything. You’ll learn a lot along the way” – Matthew Tortoriello.


TRANSCRIPTION

Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to The Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Ash Patel and I’m here today with our guest, Matt Tortoriello. Matt is joining us from Springfield, Massachusetts. Matt, how are you today?

Matthew Tortoriello: Good, Ash. Thanks for having me on.

Ash Patel: Thanks for being a guest here. Matt is a full-time real estate investor and landlord that has over 25 years of real estate experience. Matt’s portfolio consists of 250 units, and he has flipped and wholesaled over 300 units. Matt, before we get started, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you’re focused on now?

Matthew Tortoriello: Sure. I actually started when I was 16 years old. I got a duplex working with my grandmother as a hard money lender, and I flipped it a couple of years later, had a little profit. Then about 12 years ago, I was still interested in real estate, but didn’t really know where to go, and I kind of started with my best friend Kevin. We started buying in Springfield, Massachusetts, basically a whole bunch of foreclosures, just fixing them up, renting them out, building a team around it, making all these different mistakes, and learning as we go, and just kept going.

Ash Patel: Man, how did you get the real estate bug at 16 years old? You were in high school, right?

Matthew Tortoriello: Actually, no. I was in college. I graduated high school very early, so I started college when I was 15. I went to a small college out in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. There was even a 12-year old at my college… So it’s kind of a crazy and interesting in college.

Ash Patel: Let me revise the question. How did you get the real estate bug when you were in college with all those distractions around you?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, my dad owned a restaurant, so I always had an entrepreneurial mind… I always saw him working really hard, so I was always looking for what could be different. Someone referred me to check out Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which everyone talks about that book… It was very inspirational, but I was lacking a lot of knowledge from it. Then I started going to landlord meetups out in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, and met a bunch of landlords and started asking them a million questions, and they were all like, “Wow, who’s this little 16-year old asking all these great questions.” Some of them took me under their wing, they taught me a few things, and I learned from there. I made a bunch of mistakes, but mostly a success.

Ash Patel: Alright, I’m blown away… You were doing extra reading in college?

Matthew Tortoriello: Oh, yeah.

Ash Patel: And then you went out and spoke to a number of real estate people to further your knowledge in real estate. What did you go to college for? What did you want to do?

Matthew Tortoriello: Pre-med. I minored in business a little bit. I originally was also focused a little on Chinese. I was learning more about the culture and stuff like that. The way I learned early on was I needed to go to school for my passion and not for a job. So whatever intrigued me, I was like, “I want to learn that.” That’s how it all kind of segued in.

Ash Patel: Okay, so you weren’t passionate about pre-med, or were you?

Matthew Tortoriello: I was. That’s why I was going; I was passionate. My brother was born with a brain tumor, so that led me into learning more about science and stuff like that. He’s my young brother… After going to the hospital, talking to the doctors there, and kind of finding out more about it, I just dug in and started getting in anatomy, physiology books, oncology books, and just kind of researching, and so that’s my passion there. The same thing with real estate; whenever I find something I have any kind of interest in, I just start digging it.

Ash Patel: Okay, a great source of inspiration. At some point, did the real estate inclination starts to outweigh the pre-med?

Matthew Tortoriello: It did. After the first two-family in Pittsfield, I definitely got the bug and it seemed like it really worked. So I was like, “What can I do next?” I made the mistake of trying to do distance. I bought a four-family out in Saginaw, Michigan, and lost everything. I got robbed by a property manager. It became vacant, it was more than 50% vacant, so therefore my insurance company refused to cover any loss. They had stolen everything, I had to foreclose on it…

I made a lot of mistakes and learn from that, but I kept researching and reading. I got a short-term job in the meantime, and then basically in 12 years, it just happened that the stars aligned and I got back in with my best friend Kevin. Whatever it takes, we’re going to make this work. And here we are.

Ash Patel: After 12 years? What happened in those 12 years?

Matthew Tortoriello: 12 years from 2008?

Ash Patel: Well, you reconnected with your best friend, you said after 12 years… Oh, from your childhood on?

Matthew Tortoriello: 12 years, from 2008 to now.

Ash Patel: Okay. What was the journey of those last 12 years?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, the journey was we started with a two-family house. We bought it, did the BRRRR strategy before the BRRRR strategy was coined. We kept flipping that money into another two-family, a three-family. We worked with a couple of local realtors, finding any REOs that we could at the time. We were doing tons of short sales. I was doing gymnastics at the time, I wanted to learn the backflip, so I met this other investor who had just sold a bunch of property in New Mexico. He was intrigued by my interest and passion that he basically jumped on board and brought a bunch of money. So now we just kept expanding, because we had a lot more capital, and we just kept putting offers in. I think we were putting out over 100 offers a week for a while. A lot of them started coming back, so we were like closing, closing, closing.

Then I got my GC license, my lead license, my asbestos license… I’m like “Crap, I’ve got to figure out how to work with all these different contractors and managing contractors.” Now we had a bunch of tenants, “Crap, we need to figure out building a team around the tenants”, because we couldn’t find a good management company in the area. So we just started working long hours, and probably didn’t do it the right way. We should have had a plan before. But we figured it out, and we have a phenomenal team these days. We’re ready for the next correction so that we can even grow farther, faster.

Ash Patel: Okay, so we’ve established you’re one of those rare people that actually have more than 24 hours in every day.

Matthew Tortoriello: I try to. Yes.

Ash Patel: Okay, let’s bring it back to college. Did you diverge from your pre-med path at some point?

Matthew Tortoriello: I did. Honestly, I started meeting with a bunch of doctors out at Dana-Farber in Boston. My brother was going out there constantly. I started interviewing the doctors, asking them about their life, asking about what they invested in, all that kind of stuff. I found out that most of them didn’t have a family life, they weren’t happy, they wished they had just stuck with research and not focusing on ecology or neurosurgery. I kind of got a little disillusioned that this wasn’t the path for me, because these were people that I wanted to aspire to be and they weren’t happy. And yet, I had met all these landlords and investors and stuff, and they were super happy. Tons of free time and constantly with their family. I’m like, “Okay, wait a minute. Let me look over here more.” So I kind of started shifting my focus more to real estate and stopped focusing on the college aspect.

Ash Patel: Interesting. So now you’re all-in on real estate and backflips. Did you change your major to business or real estate?

Matthew Tortoriello: Nope. I finished four years and then just couldn’t continue on for my masters. I just decided to just focus on real estate and started growing from there.

Ash Patel: So Matt, by the time he graduated college, how many deals had you done?

Matthew Tortoriello: I had done four. Four deals by the time I graduated college. I was around 18 years old and I’d done a few deals then. Then I took a little time off while trying to figure things out, and I had that bad deal in Michigan.

Ash Patel: Okay. Were those four buy and holds?

Matthew Tortoriello: They were short-term buy and hold. Yes, they were buy and holds. They were planned to be buy and holds, but at the time it made sense for me to sell them. So I sold them, made some cash, and then, unfortunately, I put it all into this Michigan property and it didn’t work out.

Ash Patel: Let’s hear about that. You know we’re diving into that one now… You already teased us about that, so let’s go.

Matthew Tortoriello: Sure. I was researching different markets and I wasn’t finding a lot of deals in my area. So I’m like, “Oh, I can do this from a distance.” I flew out there and I met a local property manager that was also a realtor. I talked to him and he showed me a couple of properties. I found this beautiful, newer construction four-family that was mostly tenanted at the time. I had met with a couple of other people to kind of get things going. He said he’d managed it for me and I’m like, “Great.” I signed the paperwork, did most [unintelligible [00:09:11].29] back home, signed a few more paperwork for the closing, and I was all excited. I was learning trying to manage a property manager from afar. I kept asking all these questions, but was not getting answers.

It turns out he just up and left and had stolen some money from me, so I had to scramble to find another property manager. I went to one of those big companies; some are like “Great, a better company. They’ll be safer.” Well, they didn’t focus on the property, and they let it sit vacant for a long time. Then eventually at some point — I don’t know what exactly happened, but maybe the last tenant left and stole the furnaces, the toilets… Literally, the kitchen sink. So I tried to file an insurance claim and they denied my claim, because it was more than 50% vacant for three months. So I had to foreclose on myself, I got foreclosed on, and tried to do the best I could with the bank to [unintelligible [00:10:01].14] they pretty much ended up foreclosing on me. I had to take a little time off, trying to regroup and figure out what I did wrong, what I could have done better. That led eventually into 2008.

Ash Patel: Okay, so knowing you for the last six minutes, I’m assuming you now decided you’re going to start a property management company. Is that a wild guess — did I hit it?

Matthew Tortoriello: That is correct. You are right.

Ash Patel: Alright. So you saw how there were no good property management options out there. Now you collected yourself, your mindset is “Okay, I’m going to fix this problem that exists.” Am I still on track?

Matthew Tortoriello: You are on track.

Ash Patel: Alright, take it from there.

Matthew Tortoriello: We found, in our area — there were a lot of great guys out there, but didn’t meet the needs that we saw that were needed in the area, didn’t have that attention to detail. So Kevin and I started building a team around that. It wasn’t for property management for other people. At first, it was all about just for us, because we were going a mile a minute, we were buying so much property and we didn’t have the capacity to start taking other people on and having to deal with owners. We were already dealing with a bunch of tenants. So we were just focusing on that.

But about a year and a half ago, things are leveling off, we’re not buying as much property right now. So we opened our doors to property management, and now are starting to actually work with some local investors from out in Boston, we’re doing some commercial property management as well with a couple of people… So we’ve started expanding that.

Ash Patel: Alright. Matt, how many years ago was it that this property got foreclosed on?

Matthew Tortoriello: The property got foreclosed on now that would have been about 15 years ago.

Ash Patel: Okay. What was your next acquisition after that foreclosure, and where did the funding come from?

Matthew Tortoriello: It was a two-family on Union Street in Springfield. We bought it for $70,000. I worked with a hard money lender that Kevin had met from Boston. He funded 90% of the purchase price, as well as most of the rehab. I think it was 15% and three points, so it was kind of steep at the time. Then Kevin and I had a little bit of fun saved up, so we use that, and then it was mostly me doing a lot of the work. Kevin had a job at the time as a used car salesman and I didn’t  have a job. So I was like, “I’ll do all the [unintelligible [00:12:19].05] the floors. I will roll the sheetrock, mudding, sanding etc.” We just kind of worked late hours together, and Kevin would, after work, we’d knock it out. We got everything done in about a month and a half, had it rented out pretty much almost instantaneously, and we started the refinance, paid off the hard money lender, pocketed an extra 30,000 that we then leveraged into the next two-family.

Break: [00:12:44][00:14:46]

Ash Patel: Through no fault of your own, you got kicked in the teeth, but here you are, a college grad, you’re riding this up wave of making money off real estate, and all of a sudden your world comes crashing down. So you picked yourself back up, and at any point, did you think you would just go work for somebody and get a job? Or were you all-in on real estate?

Matthew Tortoriello: I was all-in. We had a lot of ups and downs throughout the years, but not once have I thought of ever actually looking back and trying to get a job. If everything crashed tomorrow and I lost everything, I would find and start another company. I’d probably do real estate because I love real estate, but I would start any other company. I love being an entrepreneur, I love being self-employed and a business owner… So I think that’s definitely something I would still focus on.

Ash Patel: Very inspiring. Alright, so you’ve made the 30 grand and now your next deal was… Did you say a two-family or four-family?

Matthew Tortoriello: It was another two-family.

Ash Patel: Another two-family. Okay. And that, I’m assuming, went smooth?

Matthew Tortoriello: I think we underestimated the rehab by about $10,000. The main stack was actually cracked, which we couldn’t see because it was behind the walls. It was cast iron, so we had to bring it up to code. We had to take it out, put PBS back in, and have it all replumbed, which costs about $10,000 that I wasn’t anticipating. But we still turned a profit on that, and now leveraged that and bought a four-family on Belmont. That was the next one.

Ash Patel: Okay. And that was a win as well?

Matthew Tortoriello: That was also a win. We owned that for nine years and then sold it for a crazy profit.

Ash Patel: Okay. Now I’ve known you for about 12 minutes, and I know that this isn’t enough. You’ve got three wins and in your mind, you’re thinking “How do I supercharge this business model?” Am I correct?

Matthew Tortoriello: Yes.

Ash Patel: Okay, let’s keep going through the journey.

Matthew Tortoriello: Basically, that’s around the time we met with that investor in gymnastics class. That was kind of the next step to supercharge, “We need more capital to be able to put more offers out.” We’re putting more offers out, but some them were coming back and I had to deny the offers because I didn’t have enough capital. That was when he came in. He brought in about another million dollars and we were able to basically leverage that with all these deals. At that time, there were short sales like crazy, so we were just putting offers out and we were finding maybe a month or two later that those short sales were coming back. Some took six months to close, but either way, it was just all about how many offers can we put out. At one point, I was looking at maybe 10 to 12 properties a day, just driving out, looking at the properties, writing up scopes, figuring out what we should bid on it, and really just kind of kept going with that with this one realtor who was just amazing; she just took me and drove me everywhere. We were working Saturdays and Sundays; it was non-stop, so it was awesome.

Ash Patel: How did you find this investor? And then more importantly, how did you convince them to give you essentially a million-dollar line of credit?

Matthew Tortoriello: It was actually in gymnastics class. I’m just a very open guy, I’m an open book. I like talking about what I’m doing. We were at gymnastics class, he was there, I just started talking about what I was doing that day, and how I was renovating this house. “Oh, we just bought this.” And he’s like, “Really, I’d like to hear more.” So he invited me over to jump on his trampoline. So I went over there and we were flipping on his trampoline. We just started shootin’ the s**t about everything and one thing led to another. He’s like, “I’d like to invest with you.” So I’m like, “Okay, let’s figure out how that would work.” I dropped an operating agreement and he became an actual… Not just a line of credit, but he was a partner. He kind of invested in as a partner.

Ash Patel: Was he hands-on at all or just passive?

Matthew Tortoriello: Originally, he was passive. So once again, making a lot of mistakes. We had another person at the time that was kind of helping. It turned out he was actually stealing money from us. We found out that a little bit later. This investor became a little bit more active at that time, because he wanted to correct himself. He actually became more active, and we all kind of worked a little bit more diligently after we got rid of that person, and moved from there.

Ash Patel: Not to change the subject… Did you finally learn how to do a backflip or no?

Matthew Tortoriello: Oh, yes.

Ash Patel: Perfect.

Matthew Tortoriello: Round off, back handspring, back tuck… Oh, yeah.

Ash Patel: Awesome. Okay, so now you’re turning and burning with this partner investor. What systems do you have in place to allow you to do all of this?

Matthew Tortoriello: We have 25 employees. We have an on-staff electrician, an on-staff plumber, HVAC techs. We use a couple of different systems and software. We have Rent Manager as our accounting/property management software, which has been phenomenal. If there was one thing we should have started right from the beginning, I’d have really good property management software. Early on we were using spreadsheets and QuickBooks. Oh my god, I wish we had done that just from the beginning; great property manager software. There’s a lot of them out there, Rent Manager was ours, and it’s been phenomenal for us. We use Asana project management software, so that we can work in-house with everyone. We also use Google Docs consistently, and do have outside spreadsheets for a lot of different things with vendors.

We’ve been working a lot with Home Depot. A lot of people don’t know this, but they bought this company called MarginPoint which is inventory management software. We basically have our own warehouse. It used to be called the optics program through Home Depot. So they have a mini Home Depot in our warehouse. We have about 200 SKUs of common items that our maintenance guys use. So when my maintenance guys come in, I delegate the work orders, they then go into our warehouse, use their phones to check out all the different stuff, and then they go right out into the field. They’re not going to Home Depot, Rockies, or any of these stores where they have to spend an hour in line or wherever. They can really grab the stuff from here, and when it gets low in inventory, it sends a signal to Home Depot that we’re below the min, set up an order, send me a text to confirm, I confirm, they drop it off, we restock our shelves.

Ash Patel: You just blew me away. That’s a lot of systems. Let’s rewind to when you’re ramping up. What kind of growing pains did you have and what systems did you implement at that time?

Matthew Tortoriello: One of the biggest things at first was we were working with a lot of subcontractors and managing subs. What I found was, it was easier for me to actually have employees, just because of the laws and stuff like that, what you can and can’t tell a sub to do versus an employee. So early on, it was getting some good staff and learning to manage the staff, because that wasn’t something I had a background in doing. Then t was having them check in and using a timesheet software to just track all that, so that they’re actually following all the work orders, you’re making sure you’re getting stuff done.

I think we also have to make sure we were calling up our tenants, because one of the other issues that we were having was we were running around so much that we would find that work orders weren’t getting always completed. Maybe they mudded the wall, but they haven’t gotten it sanded and painted. And then we were just like, “Oh, we got to get this done.” It was just a little too sporadic. So it was more about having someone in the back end, making sure we’re following up, making sure the work orders were all getting completed, making sure we had documentation.

Especially in Massachusetts, it’s a very tenant-friendly state. We need to document everything. “I want before and after photos.” So it was also putting all that together, which is where Rent Manager really helped… Because they can have a tablet, they could take a picture, upload it to the work order, it’d be on our server-side and the back end, so we can all see that. Then Kevin or I would report, we had all that history, all the work orders, all the pictures, and could kind of present that to the judge so they understand that we were doing the right thing.

Ash Patel: Matt, what’s an example of something you can’t tell a sub that you could tell your employee?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, you can’t tell them how to do something. You can tell you what you want to do, but you can’t tell them how, essentially, that’s kind of the big difference. Because if you start telling them how do you stop, essentially the way in Massachusetts –I’m not sure in other states– from an insurance perspective they’re looked at as an employee. So now you have to actually [unintelligible [22:41] general liability and stuff like that. I have to say that they’re my employee, so therefore I have to pay on top of that. Even though they might have insurance, it might not be covered based on the way I was transacting with them. As well as they’re 100% dedicated to me all the time, they don’t have other clients. That can also be construed that they’re really an employee and not a subcontractor, so I can’t really 1099 them. I’ve got to make sure that I’m following all the rules, otherwise, it can bite me.

Ash Patel: That’s interesting. I’m going to go out on a limb and I think that’s a law unique to your area, and maybe some more other states. But very interesting. Alright, so now you’re turning and burning. And again, you’re not done, you’re going to supercharge it again. What’s the next step?

Matthew Tortoriello: At this point, maybe about four and a half years ago, we partnered with another gentleman. He’s been doing it all by himself; he was looking for someone to build systems and that’s what we do. That’s what we specialized in. So we teamed up with him to start buying more foreclosure properties. At that time, there were so many foreclosures going on, auctions… So we built a system where we created some software where we were scrubbing all the different websites for auctions. Because Massachusetts is a non-judicial state, whereas Connecticut’s judicial, so we were able to pull all that information together.

Ash Patel: What does that mean? What’s the difference?

Matthew Tortoriello: Oh, so a judicial state is they ask you to go in front of the judge to be foreclosed. Whereas in a nonjudicial, they have certain paperwork they have to do, but they don’t have to go in front of the judge. Like right now, with the moratorium and everything, a judicial state, if it’s gone through the judge, it’s clear. You have a clear title, you don’t have any concerns. Whereas right now, if you were getting foreclosed in Massachusetts, there are so many loopholes that can happen, especially with the moratorium, that you want to make sure you have a clear title, because it doesn’t go through a judge. You just got to make sure everything’s covered. That’s some of the biggest differences.

Ash Patel: What’s your bottleneck right now? Is it deal flow? Is it capital? Is it employees? Subs?

Matthew Tortoriello: Subs, definitely. I’m finding that there’s a lot of people… My subs I do have, a lot of their employees aren’t coming back to work. Maybe they’re collecting unemployment. That’s been a big issue, especially during COVID. The other thing I find is the capital’s not so much of a problem, it is the deal flow, because foreclosure auction was a large portion of our acquisitions. We’ve been shifting into buying more tax lien certificates, tax deed states, we’ve been also buying non-performing notes… We’re working on negotiating one right now, a big package. Then we’re shifting into commercial, which is one of the deals we just locked into the other day, which I’m really excited about.

Ash Patel: Tell me about that.

Matthew Tortoriello: So it’s a shopping plaza in East Longmeadow. They haven’t been run very well. There’s a lot of deferred maintenance, roof, siding, leaks everywhere. But it has some good tenants in there and the location is perfect. We were actually going to the auction, willing to bid at 2.6 million, and we got it for 2.2, so a win. Once we reposition everything and get all the tenants in there, the value should be about 4.5 to 5 million. And we’re probably gonna have to put in another $300,000 in rehab.

Ash Patel: What makes this a perfect location?

Matthew Tortoriello:  Well, it’s, it’s right near a great rotary in East Longmeadow. East Longmeadow has also lots of job growth. There’s high net worth in that area as well. There’s tons of traffic going through as well, so you have a lot of good storefront traffic… and it’s just an up-and-coming market.

Ash Patel: Matt, you said there are some good tenants there. What are those good tenants?

Matthew Tortoriello: We’ve got a bakery that’s doing really well, a nail salon, a beauty salon, there’s a really nice restaurant that’s there, a jeweler that’s been there for about 30 years, and one of the anchor stores is this cafe that has seven other shops all around the area. That one brings, honestly, probably the most traffic. I was there over the weekend with my fiancee and there were just so many people flooding to that one spot.

Ash Patel: What’s your plan on improving it?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, the first thing is obviously fixing all the deferred maintenance. I want to get the roof done, we’re going to be upgrading all the air handlers, there is an issue with a couple of units where they’re splitting electricity, so we want to sub-meter it out. We’re going to upgrade the facade. It’s very dated. There’s a building right next to it that’s been updated, and ours sticks out like a sore thumb. I want to clean off that facade, there are some pillars, I want to put these stone pillars to really draw the eye there. There are these old awnings that hide half the windows for the front sore, I want those gone. I want brand new signs for all the businesses that match these other signs. And just really draw the attention for all the traffic that drive through. Nobody would want to go there, it just looks rundown.

Ash Patel: Is there any vacancy there now?

Matthew Tortoriello: There are a couple of vacancies. There are actually two buildings; second floor, both buildings, there are some office spaces that they were renting out to a couple of law firms and I think one was a bank. They all vacated, so we’re talking to a local commercial realtor; we’re going to do these micro offices which have been really phenomenal in our area. They’ve been going really well. You can get like $25 to $30 per square foot. So, I’m looking to do that.

Break: [00:27:58][00:28:39]

Ash Patel: Are you geared more towards commercial in the future now that you saw what you can accomplish with it?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, the bank that foreclosed on this one happens to have these three medical offices that are right around the corner in Longmeadow, even a nicer area…So we are having to talk to them a little bit about it. Yeah, we’re a little intrigued about it.

Ash Patel: I understand you’re new with commercial, but from what you’ve seen, how do you compare residential to commercial in terms of managing, investing, landlording?

Matthew Tortoriello: I definitely see a little bit of lower return. A lot of our stuff has generally been in C plus and B plus areas. You can get a good return on investment with residential. But there is a lot more hands-on. So far, what I’m seeing – and also talking to some of my friends that also got shifted into commercial – a lot of these are going to be triple net leases, so it’s a lot less hands-off. We’re mostly there to keep the common area and the cam areas in good shape and the general structure of the building, the envelope so to speak.

What I love about commercial is that value is based on the income approach, not the market approach. Therefore, I can force appreciation very easily by, like I said, with this one property, basically getting a couple of good tenants in there and improving some of the facades, I’m able to increase all the rents. That right there is what’s going to increase the value of that property. I don’t have to wait are a whole bunch of other houses to sell and bring up the market.

Ash Patel: Now, you mentioned the return is lower. Are you talking about cash flow or internal rate of return? But what if you factor in the sale? Because you’re going to make over a million dollars on this sale if you were to sell it after you improve it. So overall IRR, commercial versus residential?

Matthew Tortoriello: From my perspective, yeah, it would be higher if you do an IRR. You’re correct. But the cash on cash turn, I’m seeing it is a little bit lower, at least at this point.

Ash Patel: So you’re not convinced to go into non-residential commercial just yet?

Matthew Tortoriello: We want to go into it a little bit. I need to learn it first; so this is the first foray into it. We’ll see, maybe we’ll put both feet in once we get into it.

Ash Patel: Okay. The reason I harp on that is I’m a full-time non-residential, commercial investor. Another thing that I love about it is you deal with business owners, versus residential tenants, and you often deal with people who improve their space versus destroy it.

Matthew Tortoriello: I completely agree.

Ash Patel: So what’s next? You’ve got the commercial going on… I want to back up a little bit. You said your bottleneck was dealing with subs and getting enough good help. I’m going to, again, venture to guess after we’ve now known each other about 25 minutes, you started some kind of contracting company where you get to control subs and hire subs… Is that right?

Matthew Tortoriello: We have a construction company.

Ash Patel: Okay. Alright. Tell me about that. Do you lend out your subs to other jobs, other landlords?

Matthew Tortoriello: As we started doing a little bit of project management, we did start expanding a little bit into that. We have an on-staff electrician and he has also his apprentice, as well as we have a master plumber and she has an apprentice… So at this point, because that’s one of the bottlenecks with most of my friends and colleagues out there, so today, we’re actually out installing a brand new intercom in a seven-unit building for a guy. So as my guy has downtime, generally, I prioritize our stuff first and my clients for the property management. But I have picked up a few — actually, Home Depot has also been throwing us work. There’s a church conversion out in Pittsfield that we just put a bid on, that is converting to a 48-unit complex. So Home Depot, because we have very good ties with them, with all the others, they’ve actually asked me to bid on the electrical work.

Ash Patel: That’s great. You seem to make this look easy. But I know it’s not. What advice would you give people that are in the beginning stages where they maybe have one, two, or three properties under their belt and they want to supercharge their business as you did? What advice would you give that person that’s starting out?

Matthew Tortoriello: I would think that the first thing, like I was saying a little bit earlier, was getting good property management. That basically comes down to having good systems. The only way to really scale is that you need systems to be able to go, because you only have so much time. Yeah, maybe I have a little bit more than 24 hours sometimes, but for the most part, I’m still only one guy. And even if I hire a couple of other people, they need to have systems, and you have to also learn to be able to delegate and accept that — that’s one of the hardest things, was accepting that I’m not always going to get 100%. I know I’ll go crazy with everything doing what I want to do, but I need to accept that these people are going to help me grow, and they’ll get me to get 80% of what I could accomplish. That now allows me, if I had that person doing 80%, that personally 80%, now that I’m only able to do this, it allows me to scale that way. So I think learning to delegate and having good systems in place is key.

Ash Patel: Matt, where does your capital come from today? Is it all internal that’s recycled? Or do you still have the same investors? Or do you have additional investors?

Matthew Tortoriello: For the most part, it’s the same investors at this time that we’ve had, the same people. A lot of it has been, as we’ve grown, we’ve put lines of credit and built, stuff like that. Just like we were talking about the commercial, one of the ways we’re looking at doing it – we don’t want to pull out all that equity, we’ll probably fix the property up, have it reappraised, and then what I’d like to do is put a line of credit on the difference, so that we’ll have another million-plus to play with it for another deal.

Ash Patel: And is there a certain percentage return that you can assure your re-investors, or — what’s that conversation like? If somebody comes to you, what kind of return can you promise them?

Matthew Tortoriello: We’re not working with outside investors, but these investors that we have are actually partners.

Ash Patel: Okay, so they partner on specific deals with you.

Matthew Tortoriello: Correct.

Ash Patel: Okay. And are most of them passive, or are some of them active?

Matthew Tortoriello: There’s only two, and they’re active.

Ash Patel: Are you looking for additional investors?

Matthew Tortoriello: At this time, we’re not. Maybe if we expand more into the commercial realm, as the deals get bigger, that might be something we’re going to look into. But at this point, we have enough capital to have our hands in.

Ash Patel: The reason I asked that, Matt, was I wondered if from your earlier experience talking with all of those doctors and saw that they don’t have time for investing, maybe they don’t make the greatest decisions on investing because of that… I wonder if you saw a niche there where you could present opportunities to very busy medical professionals that don’t have — oh, you’re laughing. Okay, come on, tell me.

Matthew Tortoriello: There’s a group of doctors that I’ve been talking with. They’re two doctors and two dentists. That’s exactly what we’re talking about. They’ve been reaching out to me and I’m working on helping them potentially buy an industrial building.

Ash Patel: How would that work? They came to you, they wanted to buy industrial and you’re going to essentially source and manage it?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, I do have my brokerage as well, so of course, I’ve got a real estate license too, just because why not?

Ash Patel: Why not?

Matthew Tortoriello: Essentially, through a connection – someone reached out to me with a kind of a pocket listing or something… They had been talking to me for the last year. So I thought about them; it wasn’t something that I was interested in. So essentially, the way it would work, at least at this point in time, is I would refer them to it and I would basically get a small part of the pie of ownership. Then they asked me possibly to manage it as well. I would add it into the management portfolio, and I guess, a little piece of the pie.

Ash Patel: That’s a great win-win. You also mentioned earlier that you are expecting a downturn in the economy. How are you positioning yourself for that?

Matthew Tortoriello: Right now we’re focusing on making sure we tighten up our ship with any loose ends. We’ve been selling off some of our more troubling properties. We did have up to 500 units, we’re now down to 250. We’ve gotten rid of some, paid off some debt, as well as passing capital on the side. The other thing – we’re making sure we’re reaching out to banks and getting as many lines of credits signed up and ready to go for what we see is hopefully a buying opportunity.

Ash Patel: Where do you see your business in five years?

Matthew Tortoriello: Right now I’m really intrigued and excited about the commercial stuff. I’d love to hear more from you at some point time. But maybe 20% of our portfolio more into commercial, and I’m hoping to buy more residential as well. I do love more B classes, I’d like to get into apartment complexes. Harold Grinspoon was an inspiration for me. He actually lives in Longmeadow. I’m not sure if you know Harold at all.

Ash Patel: I don’t, but I’ll look him up.

Matthew Tortoriello: Aspen Square Management, the largest privately-owned residential company in the United States. I think he’s got like 40-something-thousand units.

Ash Patel: Wow, interesting.

Matthew Tortoriello: That’s amazing.

Ash Patel: Man, I’ve got to circle back again on another question… You were jaded on remotely managing that property that ended up foreclosed on. How are you feeling about that now? Are you okay with remotely managing properties, or is everything within a driving vicinity of where you live?

Matthew Tortoriello: I’ve been expanding a little bit into that, dabbling my toe in the water, so to speak. I have done some turnkey investing. I found some stuff in Memphis, Tennessee, I’m looking into Gary, Indiana, and a couple of other markets that I’ve been researching. I’m finding good turnkey operators that have phenomenal systems, and focusing a little bit on the returns, but it’s about people there, what systems they have and what team they have, and if I feel comfortable with them.

Ash Patel: Okay. So you know how to grow capital. Why are you investing in other people’s deals?

Matthew Tortoriello: It’s more of a hobby. It’s fun. I like going with it and also helping a couple of my friends — there is a little mastermind that we grew, so it was part of that.

Ash Patel: That’s great. So Matt, what an incredible interview… What’s your best real estate investing advice ever?

Matthew Tortoriello: Build systems and learn to delegate.

Ash Patel: Matt, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Matthew Tortoriello: Sure.

Ash Patel: Let’s do it. Matt, what’s the Best Ever book you recently read?

Matthew Tortoriello: The Best Ever book I recently read was Recession Proof Investing by Jay Scott.

Ash Patel: What was your biggest takeaway from that?

Matthew Tortoriello: Understanding market cycles and really understanding lines, so you can position yourself, especially in an inefficient market like real estate, way ahead of time, and really profit from the downturn.

Ash Patel: Fantastic. Matt, what’s the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, we actually have a YouTube channel and our Tiktok. We basically go live multiple times a day, we go live at our foreclosure auctions. We teach others what we’re doing and show them our mistakes on our YouTube videos and try to help them learn from everything we’ve done over the years.

Ash Patel: That’s great. And Matt, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, we have a great YouTube channel called Two Guys Take on Real Estate, as well as the same on Tiktok. They can definitely reach us there and that’s the best way.

Ash Patel: Matt, thank you so much for being on the show today. You’ve given us incredible advice, taking us along on your journey from pre-med to getting the real estate bug. You’ve built this incredible enterprise with some hard lessons learned along the way. Again, I can’t thank you enough for sharing your time with us. Have a Best Ever day, and Best Ever listeners, thanks for joining us on today’s episode.

Matthew Tortoriello: Thank you, Ash.

Website disclaimer

This website, including the podcasts and other content herein, are made available by Joesta PF LLC solely for informational purposes. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions expressed in this website do not constitute and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC are providing or undertaking to provide any financial, economic, legal, accounting, tax or other advice in or by virtue of this website. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions provided in this website are general in nature, and such information, statements, comments, views and opinions are not intended to be and should not be construed as the provision of investment advice by Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC to that listener or generally, and do not result in any listener being considered a client or customer of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC.

The information, statements, comments, views, and opinions expressed or provided in this website (including by speakers who are not officers, employees, or agents of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC) are not necessarily those of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC, and may not be current. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC make any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions contained in this website, and any liability therefor (including in respect of direct, indirect or consequential loss or damage of any kind whatsoever) is expressly disclaimed. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC undertake any obligation whatsoever to provide any form of update, amendment, change or correction to any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions set forth in this podcast.

No part of this podcast may, without Joesta PF LLC’s prior written consent, be reproduced, redistributed, published, copied or duplicated in any form, by any means.

Joe Fairless serves as director of investor relations with Ashcroft Capital, a real estate investment firm. Ashcroft Capital is not affiliated with Joesta PF LLC or this website, and is not responsible for any of the content herein.

Oral Disclaimer

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. For more information, go to www.bestevershow.com.

Follow Me:  
FacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagramFacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagram


Share this:  
FacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedinFacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedin

JF2384: Scaling Through Trial And Error with Matthew Tortoriello

Matthew started his real estate journey at 16 when he purchased a two-family home with his grandmother’s money. Four years later, he bought another property that was a challenge to manage. That experience taught him a lot of lessons that he applied later in his career.

With two other partners, he acquired a two-family house that he managed and renovated. After buying several more units, getting a construction license, and founding a property management agency, they were still looking for new opportunities. That’s when Matthew met a new investor and future partner who helped them take the business to a new level.

 

Matthew Tortoriello Real Estate Background:

  • Full-time real estate investor and property manager
  • 25+ years of real estate experience
  • Portfolio consists of 250 units, flipped 100, & wholesaled over 200
  • Based in Springfield, Mass
  • Say hi to him at: www.yellowbrick.org 
  • Best Ever Book: Recession Proof RE Investing

 

Click here for more info on groundbreaker.co

Best Ever Tweet:

“Don’t focus on learning everything because you’ll never learn everything. You’ll learn a lot along the way” – Matthew Tortoriello. 


TRANSCRIPTION

Theo Hicks: Hello Best Ever listeners and welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Theo Hicks, and today we’ll be speaking with Matthew Tortoriello. Matthew, how are you doing today?

Matthew Tortoriello: Good. Thanks for having me on, Theo.

Theo Hicks: Yeah, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. A little bit about Matthew. He’s a full-time real estate investor, as well as a property manager. He has over 25 years of real estate experience and his current portfolio is at 250 units. He’s also flipped 100 units and has wholesaled over 200 units. He is based in Springfield, Massachusetts. His website is yellowbrick.org. So Matthew, do you mind telling us some more about your background and then what you’re focused on today?

Matthew Tortoriello: Sure. Thanks, Theo. I actually started getting involved in real estate when I was 16 years old. I kind of read Rich Dad Poor Dad, got all excited, and I went and bought a two-family house —  I borrowed money from my grandmother actually– in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. I kind of got my feet wet, where I wanted to learn everything, try to manage it, and fix everything… About a year later, I sold it, and learned a lot of lessons there. What not to do, basically, how not to manage… It was definitely education. I broke even on everything, but it was more of an educational experience.

Then four years later, I got into some multi-families out in Michigan, and to be honest, I lost my shirt there. I hired a property manager because I thought “Alright, now I’m going to hire a manager and learn from the last experience.” Unfortunately, it was hard to manage from afar and I got taken advantage of. Eventually, the four-family got completely robbed – the toilets, the heating system, everything gone. The insurance company refused to pay for it, so I had to take a full loss there, which sucked.

Forward a few more years back in ’07, I said, “Alright, I’m going to try this one more time.” Because I’m a glutton for punishment. I convinced my business partner now –my best friend at the time– Kevin, and also my girlfriend at the time, to buy a two-family. I’ll spend all the time, you guys keep working, we’ll fix it, we’re going to make tons of money. So we bought it two-family in Springfield, Massachusetts, and basically I spent a whole bunch of time — I learned how to renovate everything, I went and got my contractor’s license, we spent many hours renovating that two-family, and then rented it out. We’re like, “Alright.” We refinanced it and pulled out the money. We bought another two-family and did that a few times. We got to a point where we’re like, “Alright, we only have so much money. How do we grow from there?”

While I was actually at a gymnastics class, I was just chatting about what I’m doing and this gentleman who had just sold some property down in Mexico was interested in reinvesting, as well. We got involved together and he started investing. That’s when we kind of started blowing up and putting offers in on a lot of stuff, and kind of growing from there, where we got up to about 500 rental units. We actually had built a management company around it, because we couldn’t find a good management company in the area… So we kind of just figured out, “Alright, we’ve got to put these people here [unintelligible [00:06:26].01] this system there.” In Massachusetts, it’s a very tenant-friendly state, I guess, it’s the best way to say it, so there’s a lot of legal battles you’ve got to fight and a lot of hoops you have to go through to make sure you can get your tenants evicted, if need be, or just everyone paying your rent. So we just had to build systems around it, and how to handle and how to screen your tenants really well.

Over the last couple of years, we’ve actually shifted into doing some more wholesale deals, flipping some houses, as well as selling off some of our portfolio that were not the best-performing, I guess. So now, as Theo said, we’re down to about 250 units we have right now; we’re still wholesaling and flipping about 70 to 80 deals a year. That’s kind of our focus right now.

We’ve also started managing for a few other people, because people have been approaching us over the years, “Hey, could you manage our stuff?” Before, we were like, “No, no, no. We have our own units. We’re not really interested in that.” But we have actually a really great team, we’ve sold off some of our units, so we have the capacity… So we said, Alright. Why not?” We’ve taken on a few management clients. We’re kind of picky and work on being selective on who we’ll manage for, and we just want to make sure that we’re all like-minded.

Other than that, we actually started also a YouTube channel to give back to the community, because we found that it was really pivotal on our growth, was that other landlords in the area were willing to share their knowledge and advice and help us not make the same mistakes they made. So we want to do the same thing for future generations.

Theo Hicks: Great, Matthew. Thank you for sharing that background. So a few follow-up questions… You said you met the guy, Theo, actually, at a gymnastics class. Was it really as simple as just talking about it and then he’s like “Oh, I’m in”, and then the next day he wrote a check? How did that relationship develop? Also secondarily, at that point, how many deals have you guys done?

Matthew Tortoriello: So first, we were on our third deal. That was our third duplex actually. I’d been going to the class for about a year; actually, he was the one who kind of started the adult gymnastics class. I’m just a talkative guy, so I was just sharing what I was doing, just talking about it, how excited I was, and he was very intrigued by my passion, so he asked if I would have lunch with him, and we sat down and we had lunch. I told him a little bit more about what we were doing… And I still didn’t think that we were going to be an investor, or anything like that; it was just more just shooting the breeze with this guy. Then he invited me over and we jumped on his trampoline, we’ve talked more, and then all sudden he’s like, “Well, hey, I just sold some property in Mexico. I’m looking to redeploy some money. Would you guys be interested in having me partner with you?” I’m like, “Well, yeah.” At that point, we were like “How are we going to keep growing?” We didn’t have a huge background with banks and stuff like that, and a huge financial background, so we thought that leveraging his other business as well as his funds would allow us to grow to that next level. So we kind of went from there.

Theo Hicks: So you had three duplexes. How long had you been doing this for, at that point?

Matthew Tortoriello: In that stage of the business, about three to six months.

Theo Hicks: That was really fast.

Matthew Tortoriello: Yeah. We got the first duplex and we got it renovated. I was spending late, late nights until two or three in the morning –I don’t really sleep anyway– just working on it. We got it rented right away as we were renovating it. People kept coming up to us, “Hey, when’s that ready for rent? When does it rent?” So we rented it right away. At that time, we already had a hard money lender lined up, so we just kind of segued into the next one… Therefore it was the BRRR strategy. We BRRRd it or refinanced it with a local bank and just kept rolling it from there. It was kind of a snowball effect for the first three, but then we were like, “How do we keep growing?” Because we could only get so many loans at that time.

Theo Hicks: It’s a good idea of the capability that you had – so you had three duplexes in three to six months… Then once he said, “Hey, I’m going to invest,” and he heard the number, how many deals did you know you’re able to do? Was it pretty easy to find those number of deals, or did you have to change the way you were finding deals at that point?

Matthew Tortoriello: We had actually teamed up with a local realtor. She was the only person in the area that was willing to go into some of these dilapidated buildings. There were just tons of dilapidated buildings in Springfield and the surrounding towns that either had vagrants living in there, a lot of homeless people… It was at some point dangerous, to be honest. So that was a key member that we found.

And once we knew we had the financial backing, basically, we just started shooting offers out. It was about how many properties can we see that were REOs, and running our numbers… Because at that point I had a good idea, I could walk through a property and figure out within a reasonable approximation of how much it’s going to take the rehab. Then we’d just basically throw out a lowball offer to make sure we have plenty of room there.

I think at one point, we were throwing out maybe 80 offers a week at all these different properties. Maybe 10% comeback, we thought, or maybe less. All of sudden, we started getting quite a few back, so we had to kind of cherry-pick the best ones… Because more were coming back that we were saying “Yes, we’ll move forward.”

Theo Hicks: Are these all duplexes?

Matthew Tortoriello: No. We started with duplexes, we bought a bunch of fours and sixes, we even have a couple of 16 family buildings. Then over the last, maybe back in 2015, we started buying quite a few single families – I think we own right now maybe about 30 single-family homes – and rented those out which have been fantastic rentals.

Theo Hicks: What was the thought process? Because usually, people go two, four, six, 16, 32, 100 units… Whereas you kind of went two, four, six, sixteen, and then back to single-family. So what was the thought process behind that?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, the thought process was at the time we were started going to foreclosure auctions in 2015, and most of the stuff that was foreclosing at that time was a lot of single-families, and we were able to get them really cheap. We got one single-family home for $200. So at that point, it needed maybe $40,000 worth of work. It was a fantastic rental, because a single-family home, we could rent for about $1,500 to $1,600, so the cashflow is fantastic.

But the other thought process was going into more single families was they were less hands-on. We could also hold the tenants more accountable, given the fact that if there was a pest problem, well it’s the tenant. Whereas when we had our 16 family buildings and we had multiple pest problems, even though we were treating quarterly for all our pests, we’d go in front of a judge and the judge would always hold us accountable… At that point, we’re also seeing bedbugs on the rise in the area, so we were having these massive treatments done, that cost $1,000 a unit. So we were trying to figure out a way to combat the extra costs that we were seeing.

Theo Hicks: Another question I have for you… So you mentioned that this time a few years ago you were at 500 units, and now you’re at kind of half… So I’m kind of wondering, what’s the thought process behind knowing when it’s the right time to sell, how much to actually sell, and how much to keep… Just the philosophy or the conversations you have with your partners when it came to selling such a large portion of your portfolio?

Matthew Tortoriello: Well, one of the things was we wanted to pay off some debt we had borrowed, and the prices were going up. But the other thing we were looking at – well, some of our lower cash-flowing properties we could sell, it would take maybe 10 to 15 years in cash flow for what we could get for capital right then, by selling it. We felt that it made more sense, instead of holding it that long term, use that capital to redeploy into maybe lowering debt, or 1031-ing into other properties, or just getting ready to hoard cash a little bit for what we kind of see that might be coming down in the next year or year and a half.

Theo Hicks: Okay. And then going back to this initial investor person, is he still with you? Is he’s still your only investor, or did you raise capital from other people along the way?

Matthew Tortoriello: I think we got up to $4 million in capital that we raised from a couple of other investors… But for the most part, Theo, he is still with us. We’re basically the three partners – it’s Kevin, Theo, and myself. We have teamed up with a couple of other people as far as flipping, but for the most part, we are the primary partners.

Theo Hicks: Okay, Matthew, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Matthew Tortoriello: Just get started and don’t focus so much on learning everything, because you’re never going to learn everything, and you’ll learn a lot along the way.

Theo Hicks: And allso start an adult gymnastics class. That’s what I’m going to do, right when we get off. [laughter] Alright, Matthew, are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?

Matthew Tortoriello: Yes.

Theo Hicks: Alright. First, a quick word from our sponsor.

Break: [00:14:53][00:15:15]

Theo Hicks: The first question is, what is the Best Ever book you’ve recently read?

Matthew Tortoriello: I’ve actually been rereading Recession Proof Real Estate Investing by Jay Scott. Just given what’s going on in the economy right now, I kind of want to prepare myself, and he’s a really smart guy.

Theo Hicks: What’s the top takeaway you’ve gotten from that book, that applies to what we’re currently going through with the pandemic and everything?

Matthew Tortoriello: Building up the lines of credit in different ways just to prepare yourself for having a lot of capital to redeploy as things are ready to buy, because banks might be tightening up a little bit.

Theo Hicks: If your business were to collapse today, what would you do next?

Matthew Tortoriello: I thought about this a little bit. Honestly, if I had to start all over from scratch, I would do something along the lines, maybe, I would focus on a little side hustle, reselling the Home Depot wares, or something like that, where you buy stuff in bulk and then splitting it apart. Once I had enough capital, I would start getting into real estate again.

Theo Hicks: That’s the first time I’ve gotten that as an answer, so thank you for that. So these two questions are going to be related, and kind of the opposite. So we’ll start with, I guess, the negative one first, which is have you ever lost money on a deal? And if you have, how much did you lose and what lessons did you learn?

Matthew Tortoriello: Okay. Yes, we have lost on a few deals. One particularly stands out… We went to an auction down in Wilton, Connecticut, which is about two hours away. [unintelligible [00:16:33].01] it’s the first one we’ve ever done. We lost by the end of it, probably about $200,000. Really, what we learned was to stick in our core area, within an hour of our home base, as well as never negotiate with a buyer that you’ll do work after the fact; just get everything done, set expectations right then, otherwise, it just turns into sometimes a legal battle.

Theo Hicks: Okay, and on a more positive note, what’s the Best Ever deal you’ve done?

Matthew Tortoriello: We bought a two-family for $1.

Theo Hicks: $1?

Matthew Tortoriello: $1. We were part of a receivership program. We actually were the number one receiver in Springfield for numerous years; we did over 50 receiverships. We became a receiver on this two-family, and the bank just wanted nothing to do with it, and they said, “Hey, will you take it off our hands?” I’m like “Sure. We were going to offer them more than that, but they said “Just $1, let’s just get it done.” We’re like, “Sure.”

Theo Hicks: Wow. It’s amazing. What is the Best Ever way you’d like to give back?

Matthew Tortoriello: We actually started a YouTube channel, Two Guys Take on Real Estate. There we’re all about paying it forward for all the lessons we’ve learned over the years. We want everyone else to be able to learn from that.

Theo Hicks: And what was that YouTube channel called again? Two guys paying it forward, you said?

Matthew Tortoriello: Two Guys Take on Real Estate.

Theo Hicks: Two Guys Take on Real Estate. Got it. The last question is what is the Best Ever place to reach you?

Matthew Tortoriello: Besides the YouTube channel, Two Guys Take on Real Estate, you can also reach us on yellowbrick.org.

Theo Hicks: Perfect. Well, thank you, Matthew, for joining us today and providing us with your Best Ever advice. We talked about your progression from starting at 16 years old to some struggles in the beginning, to obviously ultimately now having a solid business with rentals, flipping, and wholesaling properties every year.

We talked about how you raised money for your first deal. I always love to hear stories like that, just kind of really random, just talking about it to everyone you meet and eventually just meeting the right person at the right time, and it seems to have worked out very, very well for you.

We talked about how you found your deals, the types of deals you targeted, and then why you went back down to single-family homes, because of the advantages of it being less hands-on, you could hold tenants more accountable, and your state being a pretty tenant-friendly state… As well as being able to get them for so cheap, like 200 bucks, or I guess the duplex was $1. But still, 200 bucks is pretty cheap for a house.

We also talked about the thought process behind selling off properties, like when do you sell, how do you know when to sell, which property should you sell… Then you gave your Best Ever advice, which is to get started, and then also to not fall into analysis by paralysis in a sense, or just educating yourself to the extreme, and using that as an excuse to not really take any action. I couldn’t agree more on that, Matthew.

Thanks again for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Best Ever listeners, as always, thank you for listening. Have a Best Ever day and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Website disclaimer

This website, including the podcasts and other content herein, are made available by Joesta PF LLC solely for informational purposes. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions expressed in this website do not constitute and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC are providing or undertaking to provide any financial, economic, legal, accounting, tax or other advice in or by virtue of this website. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions provided in this website are general in nature, and such information, statements, comments, views and opinions are not intended to be and should not be construed as the provision of investment advice by Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC to that listener or generally, and do not result in any listener being considered a client or customer of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC.

The information, statements, comments, views, and opinions expressed or provided in this website (including by speakers who are not officers, employees, or agents of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC) are not necessarily those of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC, and may not be current. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC make any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions contained in this website, and any liability therefor (including in respect of direct, indirect or consequential loss or damage of any kind whatsoever) is expressly disclaimed. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC undertake any obligation whatsoever to provide any form of update, amendment, change or correction to any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions set forth in this podcast.

No part of this podcast may, without Joesta PF LLC’s prior written consent, be reproduced, redistributed, published, copied or duplicated in any form, by any means.

Joe Fairless serves as director of investor relations with Ashcroft Capital, a real estate investment firm. Ashcroft Capital is not affiliated with Joesta PF LLC or this website, and is not responsible for any of the content herein.

Oral Disclaimer

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. For more information, go to www.bestevershow.com.

Follow Me:  
FacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagramFacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagram


Share this:  
FacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedinFacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedin

JF2286: Buying Businesses & The Land With Nigel Guisinger

Nigel started investing in 2008 when he bird dogged a mobile home park for a family friend and from that original deal, he was able to cut a nice profit that he then turned into a handful of foreclosed condos. Fast forward, today, Nigel has 160+ units in three states. His main goal is now to buy businesses that have real estate to help him compound his buying power.

Nigel Guisinger Real Estate Background:

  • Full-time investor, and likes to focus on buying businesses that also have the real estate to compound his buying power.
  • He started investing in Real Estate in 2008
  • Portfolio consists of 160+units in 3 states, office condo, 9,000 sq ft of commercial space, 4.2 ac of development land, two appliance stores, laundromat, home building company, and a single-family house
  • Based in Springfield, Missouri
  • Say hi to him on Instagram @nigelguisinger
  • Best Ever Book: Relentless by Tim Glover

 

Click here for more info on groundbreaker.co

Best Ever Tweet:

“Real estate does not appreciate in value” – Nigel Guisinger


TRANSCRIPTION

Theo Hicks: Hello Best Ever listeners and welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Theo Hicks and today we’re speaking with Nigel Guisinger. Nigel, how are you doing today?

Nigel Guisinger: I’m doing great. Thanks, Theo.

Theo Hicks: Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us. Looking forward to our conversation. A little bit about Nigel – he is a full-time investor and likes to focus on buying businesses, but also have real estate so he can compound his buying power. He started investing in 2008 and his portfolio consists of over 160 units in three states, an office, a condo, 9,000 square feet of commercial space, 4.2 acres of development land, 2 appliance stores,  a laundromat, a home building company, and a single-family home. He is based in Springfield, Missouri and you can say hi to him on his Instagram account, which is just his name, Nigel Guisinger. So Nigel, do you mind telling us some more about your background and what you’re focused on today?

Nigel Guisinger: Absolutely. So I grew in Salem, Oregon, and went to a public school, didn’t have anything really special, did some private school when I was little, and that taught me to get into thinking for myself and getting into thinking about wanting to be an entrepreneur. From the time I was little, I knew I want to be my own business owner, I wanted to kind of forge my own path. Started out with selling rocks on the beach at six years old, seven years old, to kids who could have just picked them up and skipped them, and I’d go pick them up at low tide and sell them back to them. So that entrepreneurial spirit has always been in me.

I went to Oregon State, before that I went to Germany for a year as an exchange student. At Oregon State I got my degree in German, not in business. And then met my wife, got married, got into the construction supply business; while all of my co-workers were buying boats and nice houses and everything, I stacked cash from ’04, ’05, ’06 up until 2008, 2009 when the market fell out. And then I went in and started buying foreclosed condos from banks directly, and then bought some apartment complexes, and then realized that some of my customers were beginning to hurt, which is similar to what’s going on now… So the result is they needed an equity partner. So I came in and I was able to buy things like a homebuilding company, a glass company that did 27 million dollars of business and I didn’t have to pony up any cash. And I also got the warehouse, I ended up owning the building that was next door to them because they had the options on that. So I look at things and how I can both grow a business and buy real estate.

That kind of brings me to today – I ended up flipping a couple of apartment complexes; I’ve never flipped houses but done apartment complexes and rehabbed those. I like that sweet spot of a million dollars to five million dollars, both on the purchase price and on the ARV, that way I’m sticking out of what any newbie can do, but also stand out of what the institutional guys can do. So I like sitting in that sweet spot. But the new thing that I’m really passionate about right now is buying businesses of baby boomers that is either home services or critical services, essential workers, to get people back to work and to keep these businesses that were closed down due to the Coronavirus, or because we’ve got five million baby boomers that are trying to exit the market, there is an opportunity. So that’s something that I want to capitalize on. So right now, doing that, and helping people look for business and giving advice on how to do that so we can get this economy going.

Theo Hicks: So when you’re buying these businesses now, are you just buying the business, or is it the purpose of buying the business and the real estate that they’re in?

Nigel Guisinger: So ideal situation is a business where you’re buying the business and buying the land. So one of my business models which is something that I think anybody can pick up right now is there is a bunch of baby boomers who want to exit the market, if it’s due to COVID if it’s due to whatever choices that they have; they’re just tired of the grind, right? Well, they own these businesses and they have a substantial amount of equity, but then they also own the building that they’re in. So you can utilize owner financing on a deal where you’d buy the business on contract from the existing ownership, or if you use a SBA loan to maybe put 10% down.

I did that with an appliance store where the total buy was 1.8 million dollars for the land and the business. I used an SPA loan, we got a $500,000 purchase price on the business, 1.3 million dollars on the land, I put $50,000 down for the 10% requirement for the SPA on the business, the owners carried 100% on the land, that gave them enough to pay off the property. I ended up getting the piece of property that was worth, after we did the work to it, 3.2 million dollars, and you’ve got a business that did four and a half million dollars last year in gross revenue, with an 8% EBITDA.

So it’s a win-win all around; all the people who work for him, still employed. In fact, we grew that company; there are more service desks, there are more delivery guys, there are more employees, people are getting more salary, everybody wins in that. The seller’s got an annuity basically in the form of the land, because they were carrying the contract. The SBA paid them a big chunk of money at the beginning, which we’re making payments on that. And then because of that, we were able to cash flow, make sure that we could hire more employees, more vehicles, give raises, add insurance, things that they had never had before, right?

There’s a lot of opportunity for this, so I’m really passionate about how to get people who maybe don’t have something, to get something. How do you go from being that employee that has never had it, to having that business? That’s what I’m passionate about right now.

Theo Hicks: Perfect. Let’s dive into details on this particular deal you were just talking about, just so we can pull out the strategies that people can replicate this. So I understand most of what you said, so I might ask some follow up questions. But let’s go back to the very beginning. So I want to buy a business and the land from a baby boomer.

Nigel Guisinger: Yes.

Theo Hicks: Where do I go? Am I just googling it? How do I find these businesses?

Nigel Guisinger: Sure. So every day you drive past businesses, unless you decided to shut yourself in completely. But you’re driving past a business — I guarantee within this week you’ll drive past of business in your town, wherever you are, that has a baby boomer; somebody who’s between the ages of 60 and 70 years old that has been in that business for a long time. In this example it was called Walt’s Sherwood Appliance. A great business, had been around for 25 years, by Tom and Carol Vincent. Amazing people, I can’t say enough positive about them; they’re involved in the chamber of commerce, they’re involved in their church, they were involved locally for kids sports, everything that you’d want in a business. [unintelligible [00:09:46].24]  whatever everybody thinks of when it comes to that, that was these guys; they were amazing, they were givers to their community. So there are ample businesses like this, but the problem is they’re getting old, and they got tired. That doesn’t mean that they couldn’t do the job anymore, they wanted to continue to do it, but they wanted to also be able to enjoy the fruits of 25 years of labor. They wanted to go to Hawaii, they wanted to go to Alaska on cruises, they wanted to go do whatever they wanted to do. They didn’t want to just hang up their business because they got tired of it, because they have enough integrity and they cared so much about their employees that they couldn’t just wrap up the business.

And you’re going to find that a lot of business owners, no matter what the mainstream media is saying right now, the facts are business owners actually care about their employees, at least all the small guys that I know care about their employees. They would continue and they do continue fighting it out right now when it would be easy to give up. They do that solely for the people that work with them, because you’re in and out with them every single day in the grind. So Tom and Carol cared about one thing and cared about one thing only. They wanted some money, right? But they were fine, because they have done well. But what they really wanted more than anything was to make sure that their employees were still employed, that I’d keep that business going. They didn’t care about the name, they didn’t care about who was running it, they cared that the people who work for them still had a job. Because they didn’t want to just take theirs and get out and bounce on everybody else. So over the course of about a year – it took a while – we talked about buying the business, and I found out that they owned the land, and I found out what their needs were. They didn’t need a chunk of cash all at once, because they wanted to go to Hawaii this month, they wanted to go to Alaska the next month, they wanted to go down to the coast another day, they wanted to go to up to the mountains another week. They didn’t have to be a chunk of cash, they needed a constant cash flow, which is just something that you get in normal real estate.

So what we did was we found a creative solution on how to do that. We established a value based on the real estate off of what they were paying, and then in addition to that, we found out what the value of the business was. We were able to figure out what the value of the business was based on their P&L and balance sheet, and then based on what they’re paying for rent for that area, we created what would that loan amount look like if I went and got a normal loan through conventional terms.

So once we’ve established the baseline of where the prices need to be, we re-engineer those values based on that total price; the business plus the land equals X. Now what they care about is the total deal, so now based on tax strategies and based on what we need to do, we maneuver those numbers so that they get what they need when they need it for a chunk of cash that they mitigate their tax expense, and then they get an annuity over a period of time. So that’s what we did.

Theo Hicks: And an annuity – is that cash flow, payments?

Nigel Guisinger: Cash flow they get every month. That’s right. So when people get old — you’ll see that some people want real estate, and what that does is if I bought an apartment complex and it was paying me $2500 a month and that $2500 a month, if a paid pure cash for it was $300,000, I could do an essence buy an annuity for the same amount from an insurance company, and they would control the asset but they’d pay out the annuity amount every month. You can create your own by buying the real estate from somebody and making payments to them. It’s called owner carry finance, but instead of going in and saying “Hey, I want you to carry this note for me, here’s what I’m going to do for you. I want to give you an annuity.” It’s the same thing, it’s just termed different.

The language that we choose to use when we negotiate these deals is really really important, because if we say “Hey can you do me a favor and carry a note for me?” That’s not the same as me saying “Hey you know what? Theo, you’ve got a need for a certain amount of money every month, so why don’t I give you that amount of money every month and you give me your assets?” Right? So that’s an annuity; there’s a difference. It’s the same exact aspect, but the language that we’re choosing to use encourages them to say “Hey, wait a second, we’re partners on this”, not
You’re doing me [unintelligible [00:13:38].12] by being the bank for me.”

So this is truly a partnership, because I’m paying them every month and they have a vested interest to make sure the business still survives. So when something’s difficult and I don’t know how to do it — because I don’t have the experience that they have; they have 25 years on me, right? So what do I do? I just call them up, “Hey, by the way, this happened, what would you do?” They have a vested interest to make sure that we succeed. That’s what happened in this case.

And then here about a year ago, an incident happened where the need to refinance and have a big chunk of cash occurred. As a result, we actually ended up after three years refinancing Tom and Carol out of that note; they got paid off, and we put in permanent financing for them. Because we had a partnership — I still get to call Tom and Carol every week, I still get to ask him questions. It was just that they had a need for something and I had a need for something, and we were able to fulfill those needs by refinancing out. But that partnership and that friendship still exist, and today it’s a thriving appliance store in Sherwood, Oregon and in Canby, Oregon, and we have a dozen or so employees, and nobody makes minimum wage, and everybody’s got better services than what they had. I think it’s turned out really well; it was a win-win for everybody.

And in the end, I’ve got a great piece of property, and I’ll end up selling that business one day to somebody else and probably do the same thing, because we have the obligation as business owners to reach out our hand and help people up. And right now — I saw a stat here… Two weeks ago I was in Breckenridge, Colorado with GoBundance, and there was a stat that said 1,900 businesses that do a million dollars of revenue close up every single day in this country. And if we look at that, 1900 businesses every single day just wrap up, that do over a million dollars… That’s just money coming off the table. All you have to do is ask, “Hey are you willing to sell? Instead of hanging it up, why don’t you call me and why don’t we cut a deal?” Because they’re going to walk out with nothing. So you can create terms, you can get in… Why do we have to wait for banks? JP Morgan said that they’re not going to lend on stuff. Why do we have to give the money to the banks? Why don’t we as small business people step it up and come in and say “You know what? Let’s buy this out, let’s create an annuity, and let’s really bring up some people who have been held back, that maybe aren’t accessible to financing, and carry those notes?” Because there are owners right now are walking away getting absolutely zero, and it is millions of dollars that they leave on the table.

So my encouragement for everybody on this podcast is I hope that people can look creatively to see what are ways that we can get real estate, and think creatively to get that, while at the same time helping out our economy, keeping jobs, and really growing the market, which is what’s needed right now in this country more than ever. And specifically, one of those awkward areas of town that you’re not normally in. Those businesses are getting thumped; and if people just stepped up and say “Hey, let me carry the torch for you”, you’d have that owner that says “Hey, I want a dog fight with you” and it’s always a winning ticket. So it’s made me millions of dollars, it’s made owners that were going to walk away with nothing millions of dollars… It’s truly a win. The only people who don’t make any money in my deals are the banks.

Theo Hicks: Alright, Nigel, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Nigel Guisinger: That number one piece of advice that I was given was from my grandma. And I hear this all the time, that people think that this isn’t true, but she told me one thing and she said “If you want to make more money in real estate than you can even imagine, you’ve got to accept one absolute truth. That absolute truth is real estate it does not appreciate in value. What you think of as appreciation is actually a measure of inflation.” So if you can invest so that you’re cash-flowing, that’s where you make your money. The people who make their money long term in real estate understand that what they’re doing is they’re actually pegging a certain amount of money in a certain date, and they’ve paused time. Because the three weapons to negotiate are price, rate, and duration. And if you can pause time, you win every single time.

Theo Hicks: Perfect. And that’s actually one of our three unbeatable laws of real estate investing, so we cannot agree more, Nigel. So are you ready for the best ever lightning round?

Nigel Guisinger: Absolutely.

Theo Hicks: Alright.  First, a quick word from our sponsor.

Break: [00:17:53][00:18:34]

Theo Hicks: Okay Nigel. What is the Best Ever book you’ve recently read?

Nigel Guisinger: I just read Tim Grover’s Relentless. It’s a story about basketball players Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, but from the perspective of there are closers, there are cleaners. And guys like Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, they are cleaners. I consider myself a cleaner.

Theo Hicks: If your businesses – since you got a lot of them – if all of them across the board were to collapse today, what would you do next?

Nigel Guisinger: I love this question, because one of the challenges I think that would be awesome is to see if you can go from zero to hero in 365 days. And I think I’d be a millionaire in 365 days, because what I’d do is I’d go knock on the door of every single business that I saw they haven’t opened up from Coronavirus, and say “Hey, this business was a legitimate business before. Are you willing to jump back into it? You’ve got the know-how, I’ve got the motor, let’s do this, let’s fire this thing back up.” And I would find somebody in this town today that would carry on that, and 365 days from now I’d be a millionaire again. And I think anybody can do that, too.

Theo Hicks: Can you tell us about a deal that you’ve lost money on? How much money you lost, and then what lesson you learned.

Nigel Guisinger: Sure. I got a big hit, probably bigger than most of the people that are on the show. Never lost any money in real estate, but on a business, I had an appliance store where we thought that we had cloud back up, we paid for primary back up in a [unintelligible [00:20:00].11], found out that our server provider wasn’t doing what they needed to. We had to go through insurance because they lost their accounts receivable. That was 2.2 million dollars; it was expunged, just like that. I thought that we had enough insurance to cover that; I only had a hundred thousand dollar policy, they only had a million-dollar policy. That one cost me seven figures. So make sure that you are checking your insurances regularly, that you have adequate coverage… Because the size that we were had enough insurance, but then five years later when we grew from $350,000 to $9,000,000 of revenue I hadn’t revised what my aging was. And back, then my aging was at a hundred thousand, and it was up to 2.2 million dollars.

So if I could go back, my number one thing is make sure as you grow your businesses, that you’re sitting down with your insurance providers. If you’re going through hypergrowth, peg out where you think you’re going to be in six months and in a year; if you’ve got goals to get there, make sure that you’re doing it… Because the other guy had insurance, I had insurance, it was no fault of our own, and a million bucks plus got wiped. And that hurts. But I went and made another million bucks, so…

Theo Hicks: There you go. What is the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Nigel Guisinger: My number one thing that I’m doing right now is — I call it a passion project, it’s called yoursmallbusinesshub.com. I teamed up with one of the other guys from GoBundance to help new investors and help people who want to buy businesses buy businesses. Basically, folks who have never done it, they don’t know how to underwrite a deal in business; maybe they know how to do it in real estate, but… How do we do this? One of the things that I feel obligated to do because I know how to do it is to help underwrite and be that secondary check for people.

So we’ve got a website called yoursmallbusinesshub.com. We don’t sell anything, we just help people buy businesses, and in the right situations, we’ll actually team up with people and co-buy businesses with people. If they want to be the operator, we’ll help get that deal done. And it has been great so far, we’ve helped buy a couple of hundred businesses and keep probably 30-40 million dollars in the economy, which is awesome, not losing that to attrition.

Theo Hicks: And then lastly, what is the Best Ever place to reach you?

Nigel Guisinger: The best way to reach me is just through Instagram. I’m just @nigelguisinger. I have a hundred percent commitment to if you send me a message, I will respond back. I think it’s important. I post about some of the apartment rehabs I’m doing, some of the businesses that I’m doing, but most of all, if you send me a message through Instagram, I promise I will respond back every single time.

Theo Hicks: And that Instagram handle again is his name @nigelguisinger. So Nigel, I really appreciate you coming to the show. I always enjoy having conversations with people that are doing something that I don’t know anything about. So essentially, your strategy has been to buy businesses as well as the underlying real estate, with the combination of your own money, small business loans, and then seller financing.

And obviously, right now this is something that is very relevant, and you mentioned that during the lightning round that if your business ever collapsed, you would just go to these businesses that you can clearly see aren’t open right now, or maybe just re-opened and are struggling and maybe you just don’t know that they are, and try to work out some sort of deal by determining how much the real estate is worth, plus what the value of the company is worth, plus figuring out what their goals are, whether it’s a chunk of cash or an ongoing cash flow, and try to figure how to make a deal [unintelligible [00:23:40].28] This is a little complicated, so make sure you check out his website yoursmallbusinesshub.com, as well as take him up on his offer to talk to him on Instagram if there is a business in your local area that you want to consider buying; maybe he can help you out determine what the value is and how to come up with a solution. So Nigel, again I really appreciate it. Best Ever listeners as always, thank you for listening. Have a Best Ever day and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Website disclaimer

This website, including the podcasts and other content herein, are made available by Joesta PF LLC solely for informational purposes. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions expressed in this website do not constitute and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC are providing or undertaking to provide any financial, economic, legal, accounting, tax or other advice in or by virtue of this website. The information, statements, comments, views and opinions provided in this website are general in nature, and such information, statements, comments, views and opinions are not intended to be and should not be construed as the provision of investment advice by Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC to that listener or generally, and do not result in any listener being considered a client or customer of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC.

The information, statements, comments, views, and opinions expressed or provided in this website (including by speakers who are not officers, employees, or agents of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC) are not necessarily those of Joe Fairless or Joesta PF LLC, and may not be current. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC make any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions contained in this website, and any liability therefor (including in respect of direct, indirect or consequential loss or damage of any kind whatsoever) is expressly disclaimed. Neither Joe Fairless nor Joesta PF LLC undertake any obligation whatsoever to provide any form of update, amendment, change or correction to any of the information, statements, comments, views or opinions set forth in this podcast.

No part of this podcast may, without Joesta PF LLC’s prior written consent, be reproduced, redistributed, published, copied or duplicated in any form, by any means.

Joe Fairless serves as director of investor relations with Ashcroft Capital, a real estate investment firm. Ashcroft Capital is not affiliated with Joesta PF LLC or this website, and is not responsible for any of the content herein.

Oral Disclaimer

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an offer to buy or sell any securities or to make or consider any investment or course of action. For more information, go to www.bestevershow.com.

Follow Me:  
FacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagramFacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagram


Share this:  
FacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedinFacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedin
real estate pro advice

JF894: How ANY Unexperienced Investor Can Do BIG Deals Through a Great Partnership #SkillSetSunday

Newbie? That’s OK, if you’re smart you will leverage the experience and background of investors and money partners who have been in the game for a while. Today you’ll hear all about that and when it might not be appropriate to make a partnership.

Best Ever Tweet:

Bob Couture Real Estate Background:

– Managing Partner at S&C Homebuyers, which buys distressed properties and redevelops them for resale or rent
– Focus is on acquisition (direct mail, marketing, networking) and finances (lender relations)
– Holds Massachusetts Real Estate Salesperson license & Co-Founder of Western Mass Real Estate Investor Club
– Army veteran with 22 years of service and corporate experience
– Based in Springfield, MA
– Say hi to him at http://sc-homebuyers.com/

Made Possible Because of Our Best Ever Sponsors:

You find the deals. We’ll fund them. Yes, it’s that simple. Fund That Flip is an online lender that provides fast and affordable capital to real estate investors. We make funding your projects easy so you can focus on what you do best…rehabilitating homes.

Download your free copy at http://www.fundthatflip.com/bestever

Subscribe in iTunes and Stitcher so you don’t miss an episode!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwTzctSEMu4L0tKN2b_esfg 

Follow Me:  
FacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagramFacebooktwitterlinkedinrssyoutubeinstagram


Share this:  
FacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedinFacebooktwitterpinterestlinkedin
Joe Fairless