JF1893: Office & Retail Real Estate Investing 101 with Catherine Kuo

Catherine was learning the real estate investing world from a very young age. As she said, when most kids were having playdates, she was with her mom at work underwriting deals. She invests mostly in office and retail space now and that is where the conversation focuses today. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


Best Ever Tweet:
“Be persistent, try to get in front of the decision makers, build rapport and create a relationship” – Catherine Kuo


Catherine Kuo Real Estate Background:

  • Commercial real estate advisor, investor, and entrepreneur
  • Currently handles leasing for just under 100,000 SF of office and retail space in Las Vegas
  • Based in Las Vegas
  • Say hi to her at https://www.elitehomes.us/
  • Best Ever Book: The 5 Love Languages


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Our fourth annual conference will be taking place February 20-22 in Keystone, CO. We’ll be covering the higher level topics that our audience has requested to hear.


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JF1839: Emotional Intelligence, Communication Skills, Sales & Marketing Tips For The Real Estate Investor with Travis Chappell

Travis was in direct sales and did very well for a few years. Even though the money was nice, he didn’t see himself doing if for the next ten years. We’ll hear what he learned from that sales job and how he uses those skills today as a real estate investor. Some of the biggest tips he has to share relate to reading people and knowing how to respond. This can be huge for us as real estate investors. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


Best Ever Tweet:

“Get in that pocket and allow yourself to stay there longer than that person” – Travis Chappell


Travis Chappell Real Estate Background:

  • Direct sales consultant, real estate investor, and professional connector
  • Creator and host of Build Your Network, a Top 25 Business podcast
  • Based in Las Vegas, NV
  • Say hi to him at https://travischappell.com/
  • Best Ever Book: Everything is F****d


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Theo Hicks: Hi, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Theo Hicks and I’ll be host today. Today I am speaking with Travis Chappell. Travis, how are you doing today?

Travis Chappell: Doing fantastic, my man. How are you?

Theo Hicks: I am doing fantastic as well. I appreciate you coming on the show and I’m looking forward to our conversation. A little bit about Travis before we get started – he is a direct sales consultant, real estate investor and professional connector. He is the creator and host of Build Your Network, which is a top 25 business podcast. He’s based in Las Vegas, Nevada, and you can say hi to him at TravisChappell.com.

Travis, before we start our conversation, can you tell us a little bit  more about your background and what you’re focused on now?

Travis Chappell: Yeah, Theo. I grew up in a small little bubble in a tiny religious community in Southern California. When I was growing up, the plan for me was I was going to be the youth pastor when I grow up and go to college, and everything like that. In college though I started realizing pretty quickly that that wasn’t really the path that I wanted to go down, so for the first time in my life ever I was trying to figure out what I really actually wanted to do… Because I didn’t really go through that when I was 15-16.

So I was trying to figure out what the next step was going to be, and a buddy of mine was doing door-to-door sales at the time, and basically just showed me one of his paychecks, and I saw he was making good money. He works whatever hours he wants to work, as long as he hits production marks… It seemed really intriguing to me, so I started into door-to-door sales when I was a junior in college. When I graduated, like I said, I didn’t want to pursue the thing that I had gotten my degree in anymore, so I just kind of defaulted into door-to-door, because that was what I knew, and I was pretty good at it, and I made good money, and had a flexible schedule, so I just kind of went for it.

After five or six years of knocking doors for various companies, different industries, building out sales teams and working with them, I just kind of got to the point where I was like “This is cool, but I don’t see myself doing this in a decade from now, and if I can’t see myself doing it in ten years, then I should probably change courses sooner rather than later, so that I can control where I end up in a decade.”

So for the first time ever I jumped into the personal development space, and just kind of dove in, started learning as much as I could, and discovered podcasts for the first time ever. I started listening to a bunch of them, and eventually just thought “Man, this would be really cool to do this, to do it full-time.” So I jumped in, and now that takes us a couple years later – I’ve been rocking with this show; I have over 300 episodes out now, and it’s what I do full-time. It’s been a really cool journey. That’s it in a nutshell, that’s a quick synopsis.

Theo Hicks: That’s a very interesting development from where you started to where you are today. I actually did direct sales as well, so I know the answer to this question, but for the Best Ever listeners who aren’t’ doing  direct sales, do you mind just telling us a little bit about how you were able to use those skills that you learned from door-to-door knocking in order to either do your podcast, or your real estate investing career, or your professional connector career? Either one of those… What are some of the skills that you learned from being a direct salesperson, going door to door for over six years, and then how did you do what you’re doing today?

Travis Chappell: Yeah, really good question. I always tell anybody that’s coming out of high school to try door-to-door for a year. I think that you’ll learn more about emotional intelligence, sales and marketing language than you will going to college, for sure. That’s probably the number one thing that I can take away from it, is just communication, or maybe emotional intelligence. Your EQ. It’s an emotional intelligence crash course, and you learn really quickly that what people say is not what they’re actually thinking.

They’re just trying to be nice, so you have to really get good at learning how to read body language queues and non-verbal communication, tonality, different things like that, so that you can actually get to the root of the problem and figure out what the actual thing is that’s holding them back, and to be able to do that on that kind of a scale… Because some people will do outside sales, but they’ll get leads, and they go to a house and they talk to two or three people a day. Your skillsets will increase in direct proportion to the amount of people that you’re talking to, the amount of times that you practice. When those people are talking to 2-3 people a day doing an outside sales job, as a door-to-door rep you’re talking to 20 to 50 people a day, just depending on how many hours you’re going out for and how many people are home, and what day of the week it is, and things like that.

So yeah, it’s just a crash course, meaning that it’s so much learning in such a condensed period of time… And there’s no guesswork; that’s one thing that I really like about that industry – people can’t fake it. There’s so many fakers out there, in all these other industries, and especially the one that I’m in now, which is the online marketing world. There’s just so many people that get out there and fake it, and fake it, and fake it, and I can’t stand fake people. It’s one of the things that really irritates me the most, to be honest… And in the door-to-door game there really is no way to fake it; you either do it or you don’t do it. And if you don’t do it, you don’t make money. Month four you’re not making money, you’re not just gonna continue faking doing it, because it’s a grind to keep doing it… So it very much weeds out a lot of people, and you learn a lot during the process.

But the number one thing that I’ve learned through all that is definitely emotional intelligence. The 7-38-55 Rule says that only 7% of our communication is actually the words that we say, and 38% is tonality, and 55% is body language and facial expressions. So when you are talking to that many people and getting rejected in so many different, colorful, different types of ways, you definitely start picking up on what people are saying, how they’re saying it, what they look like when they say it, and what it actually means. So that’s just one of the lessons.

Theo Hicks: Yeah, those are two interesting points. The one about faking it is huge too, because when you’re doing direct sales, you’re actually in front of people, you’re actually talking to them… And when you’re strictly online, especially if it’s more of a written form, and even in verbal form, you can script a lot easier, because no one else is really talking back to you, so you can say whatever you want online… Whereas in person you can’t really do that. You can start with a script, but if the person says something that goes off-script, if you don’t know what to say, you’re gonna be weeded out and you’re gonna get rejected… So I think that’s a really important point, and it’s definitely a really good skillset to learn by being in front of people constantly for your job.

But on the EQ side, I want you to go into a little bit more detail. You mentioned briefly the kind of skillset you gain over time; you have hundreds and hundreds of conversations, you get rejected X amount of times, and you see a pattern of  “Okay, this is the nonverbal thing that I see from people when they’re going to reject me” or “Here are the things that I realized that I’m doing that ultimately end up in me getting rejected…” But is there anything more specific that people can do to work on that skillset, whether it be after a conversation, going back and writing out what they learned…? Or is something that you just keep doing and over time you organically, in yor mind, learn what to do, what not to do, and what different non-verbal communications mean?

Travis Chappell: Yeah, I think it’s more the latter than the former, in my experience anyway… And I’m sure that there are ways to improve on that and make it better, to where you can make it a quicker learning process… But I just look at it as like you’ve just gotta put in the reps. There’s just no substitute for putting in the reps and talking to people.

When I sit down and try to negotiate now deals with different people in the real estate world, in investing and stuff, there’s almost like a comfortability in negotiation that I think that I have, that not a lot of people do have… Because intrinsically it’s an uncomfortable situation. People can talk terms all day, people can talk benefits all day, but as soon as it comes down to pricing, everybody starts getting a little fidgety; people start feeling a little uncomfortable… And I think a lot of it is just getting in that pocket and allowing yourself to stay there for longer than the other person. A lot of times it’s how you win a negotiation, in my opinion. It just comes from repetition.

There’s only so much reading about it that you can do, but if you sat in — like I said, I’ve talked to thousands of people in door-to-door; I sat in quite literally hundreds and hundreds of situations where it’s just me and a customer, one on one, negotiating a price and trying to come to terms and sign a contract. There’s no substitute for that kind of experience, because the books don’t tell you each individual personality type, and they don’t tell you that maybe this person’s background – they have certain limiting beliefs in their background about why this particular deal isn’t gonna work out for them long-term, and we have to overcome that.

There’s just so many things that reading and trying to learn faster isn’t going to be able to give you, and the only way that you’re gonna be able to get it is from putting in the reps and actually doing it. That’s why I like door-to-door so much, and especially comparatively to people who study sales, but have never really done sales…I just think doing something like that is gonna give you way more real-life experience and a better learning process than just reading some books. And I’m not saying don’t read books – I do that very often – I’m just saying that I don’t think there’s any substitute for putting in the reps.

Theo Hicks: Yeah, I like the terms that you used, reps. It gives me a metaphor from working out. If I wanna have a really high bench press, for example – well, I can read about all the different strategies for benching, the different grips, the different hand positioning, but I’m not gonna get stronger by just reading. My bench pressing is not gonna go up by just reading. I have to actually go to the gym and put what I learned into practice.

Travis Chappell: A hundred percent.

Theo Hicks: So it’s kind of the same thing… You can read about sales, about non-verbal communication all you want, and that’s helpful, for sure (we should do that), but you need to actually go out and put in those reps and put that knowledge into practice in order to actually realize that “Oh my god, there’s an infinite mount of grey areas that I’ve not learned about”, and that you can’t learn about in books, because the book would be a million pages long.

Travis Chappell: Right, yeah.

Theo Hicks: I wanna transition into the podcast really quickly before we get into the money question. I know for real estate investors something that we stress a lot on this podcast is the power of the thought leadership platform. It’s for real estate investors in general, but as an apartment syndicator, one thing that is hard for aspiring syndicators is getting that credibility in the eyes of your investors. So “I have never done a 100-apartment deal before. How do I get people to invest in my deal?” and one of the ways is to build credibility and display expertise with a podcast, or a YouTube channel, or a blog. But similarly, “I have never done a podcast before, so why would people listen to me?” So what are some tips you have on how to grow a podcast, or a thought leadership platform in general?

Travis Chappell: First off, I think that it’s really awesome that you’re teaching your listeners that, because I grew up in a real estate household, so – my dad, Mark Chappell, is a real estate agent in Southern California, a real estate broker… So I kind of grew up in that kind of a household, so I’ve always had this soft spot to help out real estate agents as much as I can. And this friend of mine, he sold his last real estate brokerage for 3,5 billion dollars in Beverly Hills… And I was talking to him recently about podcasting and how it can help out real estate investors, real estate agents, and really help — if you’re trying to be in real estate, in my opinion, there’s no better way to separate yourself from the competition than creating content.

And I was explaining that to him and he was like “Cool, let’s try it out.” So we went and tried it out, and did like a test group of 100 people who were customers of his in the past, real estate agents who were taking some things through his new marketing platform, and stuff… And out of 100 people, none of them were interested in starting a podcast. And I was just like “Wow, this is such a glaring oversight for these people…”, because this is one of the most competitive industries on the planet; for good reason, but also – that sucks. There’s so much competition, there’s so much saturation. Everybody and their mom has a real estate agent best friend, or something. So I was trying to explain this to  people… And I believe that it goes for real estate investors even more so, because like you say, if you’re trying to make people let go of their well-earned money to give to you – there’s a lot of trust that has to be built there.

And what’s the number one way to build trust? You have to have a relationship. Well, how do you have a relationship? People have to spend time with you. So how do you spend time with people on a mass scale? The only way is through creating content. The best way is through creating content. Because you can’t spend 2-3 hours with 1,000 people and still be able to do everything in your life that you’re trying to do. But you can release two or three hours of content on a podcast throughout a seven-day period and have 1,000 people tune in and get to know you and build that know, like and trust with that audience, ultimately to where they feel comfortable enough with you to be able to open their wallet or their bank account, and trust you with their money.

Look, if you’re not creating content, I just want you to sit there and ask yourself genuinely, why? “Why am I not creating content?” And then look at the reasons why you’re not creating content and ask yourself “Is this a real reason, or is this an excuse, because I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing?” Because that’s also a big thing for people, especially if you’ve done really big deals and you’ve negotiated million-dollar contracts, and you’re putting together a lot of large syndication deals, and those types of things.

When I talk to people that have big success in these other areas, they’re more scared of getting into podcasting and YouTube and these other spaces because they know nothing about it, and because they know it’s gonna be a grind and that they’re gonna have to start from scratch. So for them it’s just like “Well, it doesn’t really help that much”, and they avoid it because they don’t know anything about it, because they don’t wanna start from scratch on something again, because they’re really good at what they do currently… If that makes sense.

So I would just sit there, ask yourself “Why aren’t you creating content?” and then if it’s for a reason like that, if it’s just an excuse, then I would say get rid of it and just get started. Do something. Create content on some platform. Pick one – podcasting, YouTube, LinkedIn, whatever it is. Podcast and YouTube are the most difficult ones to grow a real audience on, but they’re also the most effective platforms, so… I would definitely recommend doing a podcast, starting a YouTube channel, something like that; just understand that it’s gonna take a while to grow. It’s not the same as a lot of other areas of business. It takes time to build those audience relationships and actually cultivate those relationships and turn them into an audience that actually cares about what you have to say. But if you can do that, then you’ll be thanking me in like five years from now.

That’s what I always tell people, “If you’re getting in the content creation game for a one or two-year play, then don’t do it at all, because you’re gonna be really disappointed with the results most likely. But if you’re getting into this for a five-year, ten-year play, then that’s where the money is.” I’ve been doing this for a couple of years and I’m already doing it full-time, and had some amazing guests come on the show, and I’m really proud of everything that’s happened with my show to date… But this is not the endgame for me at all. I’m looking at a decade into the future of what the possibilities are with creating content like this, as often as I do.

So yeah, it takes some time, but this is time that’s going to save you time on the back-end, if that makes sense. So take the time now to save yourself time later. This is a conversation that I think real estate investors and real estate agents should be having a lot more often. There’s one really big tip that I can help you with in terms of what you were saying at the beginning of this question, Theo – people sitting there and having that impostor syndrome creep up, of like “Well, who am I to get investor money? Well, I will start a podcast and then make myself more credible. But who am I for people to listen? Why wouldn’t they just go listen to Joe Fairless, and Theo, and why wouldn’t they go listen to Bigger Pockets? Why wouldn’t they go listen to those guys? What am I gonna say that people are gonna wanna hear?” And the bottom line is people connect with people, they don’t connect with just the resume. So – sure, Bigger Pockets and Joe Fairless and all these other big real estate shows have a lot more clout and credibility, but somebody out there that listens to your podcast is gonna connect with you because you’re you. That was one huge thing that I had to learn during this process.

When I first started, I only did interviews, because I didn’t have credibility, and I viewed it like “Why are people gonna wanna hear from me?” Then I had audience members reach out and say “Hey, we’d like to hear more from you.” Now I do a weekly solo show, and it’s one of my most popular shows; it’s crazy, but it’s just the fact that your audience resonates with you, not necessarily just your content. So get over the impostor syndrome and get started with something.

And then the number one way to move past all that is exactly what I did at the beginning – just the interviews. If  you’re really that worried about it, start with interviews. You don’t have to be the expert. That’s the coolest thing about this. When I started my show – it’s called Build Your Network; that’s the title  of my show – I didn’t know anything about networking. I didn’t go to networking events; I did the meetups, and different things like that, but I wasn’t good at it. I knew zero people. The richest person in my network when I started was making $150,000 a year. I started from zero, I started from scratch. I built everything up in a couple of years through leveraging credibility.

All I would do is go interview people, and then ask them questions about networking, and then every time I would do that, I would get a little bit better at networking, and then I would read books on networking, because that was my show. Then I would get better guests on. And then I would go get better, and better, and better guests on. And then every time I got a good guest, you use that as credibility to get you another good guest. And then before you know it, you have insane credibility, because you have dozens of amazing guests who’ve come on and shared their best tips for success in whatever it is.

So if you’re out there thinking “Man, I wanna start a show, but nobody’s gonna listen to me.” Well, just start a show, but do it as like an investigative reporter. Be that person that reports back to your audience. Get people like Joe Fairless on, get people like Theo on, get people like the Bigger Pockets guys on your show, and get them to share their message on your show, and build that credibility in your brand.

But yeah, this is a great question, because I just am so passionate about trying to help, especially people in real estate, just differentiate themselves through the power of content creation. I think that it’s so vital.

Theo Hicks: Oh yeah, I [unintelligible [00:20:13].21] crash course on why to create a podcast, and then how to actually go about doing it, on the mindset behind it. Alright, Travis, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Travis Chappell: Best real estate investing advice – it might seem a little bit simple, but it’s get started. A lot of people are waiting around; they keep waiting and waiting and waiting, like “Oh, I hear the market’s about to do this. Oh, interest rates are doing this” or “This other thing is happening.” But bottom line is get started. Find a deal and do a deal. As we were talking about earlier, if you just read about it all day long and never take action on it, then it’s never gonna benefit you. And one of the coolest things about real estate is that there’s a lot of surety in your investment, because it’s in real estate. That’s one of the coolest things about the real estate industry – if you go pick a stock and you put  a bunch of money into it, you have no control over whether or not that stock increases or decreases in value. In real estate, you find a deal and put money into it, even if it ends up not doing as well as you had hoped, just get one, because it’s real estate. People are gonna have to live somewhere. That’s the biggest thing.

I’ll give you a for-instance, Theo. We made an investment last year, my dad and I, and it ended up being a bad deal. We were just gonna flip it, and we ended up being upside down on it by the time we went to sell… And it was a bummer situation; obviously, it wasn’t idea, and that’s not the goal, and that’s not what we were looking to do, but it’s still real estate. So literally, the worst-case scenario did happen. The worst-case scenario happened in that deal, and you know what the worst-case scenario is? We have another rental property. That’s the worst-case scenario. We still own another house that we didn’t own before. Obviously, that money would be better used somewhere else, in a deal that’s cash-flowing better, or whatever… But worst-case scenario was we got another house out of it. It’s not like we lost our entire life savings.

The biggest thing is you’ve just gotta get started, and be okay with the fact that if you get started and you don’t know 100% of everything that you’re doing, you might lose a little bit of money… But that’s okay. Just get started, and do something. Stop waiting around.

There’s probably people listening to this show, and have listened to hundreds of episodes, but have never actually done a deal. So stop hesitating, get off the fence and just do something and figure it out along the way. There’s no better way to learn something than to just jump in and do it.

Theo Hicks: Alright, Travis… Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round.

Travis Chappell: Yeah, let’s do it.

Theo Hicks: Alright. First, a quick word from our sponsor.

Break: [00:22:41].23] to [00:23:24].11]

Theo Hicks: Alright, Travis, what is the best ever book you’ve recently read?

Travis Chappell: Recently read, or best ever for anybody.

Theo Hicks: It can be either one.

Travis Chappell: Well, there’s this book that I read recently, it’s from Mark Manson… And I don’t know if you’re allowed to cuss on the show, but the title is “Everything is Fucked.” That’s the title of the book. He doesn’t cuss a lot in the book, so if you are listening and you’re like “Oh, that’s not my thing”, get past that and just read the book. I promise you you’ll pick up on a lot of things.

Basically, it’s like a modern-day philosophy book, and there’s a lot of amazing takeaways in that book. And his first book is really good as well, so I would recommend anything by Mark Manson.

Theo Hicks: I’ve heard of his first book, but I didn’t know he had a second one, so I’ll definitely check that out. If your business were to collapse today, what would you do next?

Travis Chappell: I would do exactly what I did a couple of years ago, and start creating content around a topic that I was curious about. That’s the coolest thing about content creation – you don’t have to know everything; like we talked about, you can just be the investigative reporter. So I’ll just pick a new topic that I really wanted to learn about, something that’s a passion of mine, and just start creating content around that topic, and learning more and more about it.

Theo Hicks: What is the best ever deal you’ve ever done?

Travis Chappell: A real estate deal we’re talking about?

Theo Hicks: Yeah.

Travis Chappell: Best ever deal that I did was a duplex that I bought when I was 19. My sister and I bought it together, and got a five-year loan on that, paid it off in five years… It ended up going really well for us.

Theo Hicks: And then lastly, what is the best ever place to reach you?

Travis Chappell: TravisChappell.com has basically everything. I’m on all the social platforms, so I always tell people “Connect with me at whatever platform that you like to connect on.” But if you’re wondering which one I spend the most time on, it’s probably Instagram. That’s @travischappell. Reach out over there, say what’s up. I’ve got a lot of different free trainings and stuff going on, so if you want to learn a lot about networking and different things like that, and see how it can coincide with real estate, I do have a totally free masterclass going on right now, which you can register for at threenetworkingsecrets.com.

Theo Hicks: The number three or is it spelled out three?

Travis Chappell: Three, spelled out. Threenetworkingsecrets.com.

Theo Hicks: Alright, Travis. This has been a very powerful conversation, lots of great information that can help not only people with their real estate careers, but just life in general. To summarize what we’ve talked about – it was really three categories. Number one, you talked about your direct door-to-door sales experience, and from that we talked about how by putting in the reps, by being in front of people, by negotiating deals with people, you were able to massively increase your emotional intelligence (EQ). That is your ability to read and decipher people’s non-verbal communication. Because at the end of the day, as you mentioned, people usually don’t actually say what they mean or what they’re actually thinking.

You mentioned that at the end of the day you can read as much as possible about emotional intelligence, about sales, about real estate, about really anything, but the main lesson is you have to actually go out there and put in the reps, actually do what you’re learning about in order for it to benefit you.

Secondly, we talked about — essentially, you gave a crash course on starting and growing a podcast. You talked about why it’s important to build a podcast – the number one way to build trust is to build relationships, and to build relationships you need to spend time with people; the best way to spend time with the most amount of people is to create content that they consume.

Then more specifically you mentioned that podcasting and YouTube are the most difficult to grow, but are definitely the most effective, and then some tips on how to actually grow an audience – number one, you have to look at it as a 5 or 10-year play, rather than a one or two-year play. That’s what me and Joe talked about on Follow Along Friday before, about thinking in terms of decades, rather than in terms of months and years.

We also talked about the tip for getting over impostor syndrome, which is realizing that at the end of the day people want to connect with other people, not just the resume… Sure, there’s a hundred people that are out there that are most likely gonna be bigger than you, but at the end of the day it’s about you being you, and finding people that resonate with you.

Then something else I would add from my end is that Travis, Joe, me – everyone at one point did not have a podcast, and had no one listening, so… So you don’t really get to use that as an excuse, because everyone that’s successful at one point was where you’re at right now.

And then you mentioned that a great way to start, if you are afraid to do the solo podcast, or are fearful that you don’t know what you’re talking about – just be an investigative reporter and interview people, and over time you will become an expert and you will become a credible expert because of those conversations with those people.

And then lastly, your best ever advice, which is very simple, but also powerful – to get started; if you wanna do a deal, do a deal. Kind of going back to point number one, about the reps – essentially, being okay with losing a bit of money, because as you mentioned, your worst-case scenario, you walk away with the skillsets of “Hey, I’ve done a deal before”, so now you know moving forward how to do a deal.

Again, really powerful advice, Travis. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. I learned a lot myself, and I look forward to listening to this show again. Best Ever listeners, thank you for tuning in. Have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

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JF1614: BRRR Method Investing With Delayed Financing with Alex Felice

Alex has a very specific way of investing, and he’s here today to tell us about it. He has seen a lot of success so far, and has also helped others do the same. Hear about his strategy in today’s episode. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


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Alex Felice Real Estate Background:

  • Invests in long distance single-family real estate
  • Commercial banker in Las Vegas
  • Owns 7 houses currently and is known for doing complete rehabs in just 8 weeks
  • Based in Las Vegas, NV
  • Say hi to him at https://www.brokeisachoice.com/
  • Best Ever Book: Sapiens


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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff. With us today, Alex Felice. How are you doing, Alex?

 Alex Felice: I am fantastic, thanks for having me.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, my pleasure. Nice to meet be on the show, and looking forward to having our conversation. A little bit about Alex – he invests in long-distance single-family home real estate, he’s also a commercial banker in Las Vegas. He owns seven homes currently, and is known for doing complete rehabs in just eight weeks. Based in Vegas, as I mentioned, and you can check out his website, which is linked in the show notes page. With that being said, Alex, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

 Alex Felice: Yeah. I was, like a lot of people, living week to week, always being bent out of shape about being broke. This was a few years ago – someone told me you can make money in real estate passively, without that much money; I thought it was too good to be true, and it turns out it’s not… It’s actually fairly easy for me, and it turned out my life around. I’m thankful for real estate, and I spend my days now trying to get other people to learn the same benefits that I’ve been able to enjoy.

Joe Fairless: It’s been fairly easy for you… So what about it has been easy?

 Alex Felice: What I’ve found was this BRRR method with this little program from Fannie Mae called delayed finance. Basically, I can go in there, long-distance, have  somebody rehab the house, and refinance it with 100% of my funds back in eight weeks. I’ve spent the last two years just repeating this over and over again, and I haven’t seen half of these houses. I don’t know how it could be easier.

Joe Fairless: Alright, yeah, I’d love to be educated on this. So you said it’s a BRRR method, with delayed finance, correct?

 Alex Felice: Yes, sir.

Joe Fairless: Will you just elaborate a little bit more on that?

 Alex Felice: Yeah. Basically, you go in there, you buy the house, you rehab it, you put a tenant in there, and then Fannie Mae will give you 100% of HUD back with no seasoning. So along the way I figured “Just put the rehab, and the insurance, and the ancillary costs on the HUD.” They’ll give you 100% of it back, as long as it’s — I think the rule is 75% LTV or 100% HUD, whichever one is lower. It turns out that most of my houses, the way they work is my total all-in cost is around 75% of LTV… I know I’m throwing a lot of numbers at you. Basically, I’ve been able to save for a bunch of years, I got enough cash to buy one, and then I flipped that same money 7-8 times over, and I’ve helped a bunch of other people do it, too. It’s like a well-oiled machine now.

Joe Fairless: Huh…! How much did you have on the first one?

 Alex Felice: I’d spent a long time sacrificing and saving cash. I had 71k in cash, I spent 68,5k. I had 71 grand to my name, and I spent 68k on that first house… It was quite nerve-wracking, I’ve gotta say…

Joe Fairless: So you did 68k. What were the numbers on that first one?

 Alex Felice: The first one – we were all-in for 68k, it runs for $950, and it ended up being appraised at 100k. I couldn’t believe it.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, it’s like perfect math, where you got it all back…

 Alex Felice: Actually, I had equity left in the deal; I couldn’t get out all the money I made. It was egregious.

Joe Fairless: And where is that?

 Alex Felice: This is all in North Carolina. I had lived there for a little while, so it was kind of my back door at the time. Then I did one, I moved across country, and then I’ve done five since.

Joe Fairless: Where in North Carolina?

 Alex Felice: Fort Bragg, Fayetteville, North Carolina. I stayed there after I got out of the Army.

Joe Fairless: Okay, got it. So you bought it, 68k all-in, and it rents for $950. That was an 8-week period of time?

 Alex Felice: That one took longer because that was my first one. I didn’t know about all this at the time. But the second one I did, we found this process out… I bought this house — man, this thing was treacherous. It had growth coming through the walls… And I got too cocky on the first one, so I bought this house and not even a contractor had seen it. I bought it off the MLS pictures, and I don’t recommend doing this, really… But it worked out really good.

The next one I bought – it was treacherous. But the contractor went over there, rehabbed it, we ended up flipping it… I think that one took 12 weeks. I got 100% of my money back, and by that time I was way too brazen, I was way too confident… So like I said, I’d been doing a bunch of them, I clipped one in just under eight weeks earlier this year, and I’m doing one now which I think is going real long at 11.

Joe Fairless: Wow. The second one, how much did you buy it for?

 Alex Felice: 35k.

Joe Fairless: 35k. So that was after you got your 68k back from the first one, correct?

 Alex Felice: Correct.

Joe Fairless: You then rolled into the second one and you bought it for 35k. How much did you put into it?

 Alex Felice: About 30k, and there was some dragging on, so a little over 30k.

Joe Fairless: Okay, so you’re all-in 65k. What does that rent for?

 Alex Felice: That one is $900.

Joe Fairless: That’s in Fort Bragg, too?

 Alex Felice: Correct.

Joe Fairless: How many of them are in Fort Bragg?

 Alex Felice: All of them.

Joe Fairless: All of them, okay… You might have said that, I’m sorry if I missed that. So all of them are in Fort Bragg. Are you using the same contractor to do the work, since you’re based in Las Vegas?

 Alex Felice: Yes. If you can find a good contractor, you marry him. So after two of these things going slick, I said “Oh, this guy… I’ve gotta marry him.” [laughs] So I’ve molded a lot of my business around him and his business, because he’s done so well for me… And we had the confidence to bring other people in and show them a similar process and they used him as well.

Joe Fairless: In Fort Bragg, or surrounding areas?

 Alex Felice: Yeah. Look, if you find good people, your business goes stratospheric pretty quick. That’s where I’ve been really lucky – I just found some good people, and man, it just makes life easy.

Joe Fairless: How did you find the contractor?

 Alex Felice: I talk about real estate and getting ahead to every soul that will listen to me speak.

Joe Fairless: But at the time you didn’t have a property, so how did you come across him?

 Alex Felice: Well, the first one I did I didn’t use this spec contractor. You’ve gotta go through a few bad ones before you run into a good one. I literally was working at a bank, a  guy walks in and he says “Hey, I’ve got 21-something houses, all paid off, and I wanna go buy this other thing… Is there any way I can grab some of that equity out as a loan?” [laughs] I said, “Yeah. What are you doing?” We started talking about real estate, I forced him to become my best friend, and we’ve been doing a lot of business together for a while. And he owns a property management company too, so… I just latched onto him, I would let go, like a leech.

Joe Fairless: Right. And he was a contractor?

 Alex Felice: Yeah.

Joe Fairless: Okay.

 Alex Felice: And a fellow investor.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, clearly, a fellow investor.

 Alex Felice: And a veteran. We were in the Army – not together, but we were both in the Army.

Joe Fairless: Sure. So you connected on many levels. I imagine he’s got a company, he’s not the one swinging the hammer on your deals.

 Alex Felice: Correct.

Joe Fairless: Okay, cool.

 Alex Felice: And I’ve brought in enough other investors that he’s grown pretty — I don’t wanna speak for him, but pretty good over the last two years, where he’s added a bunch more teams, and stuff, so… Just find people you can grow with. That’s really it.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, that’s a big deal. On the first one you said that you had to go through some contractors that didn’t work out… What happened?

 Alex Felice: Well, you don’t know what a bad contractor is on your first deal. You don’t know what lazy looks like yet. So you see somebody and they tell you a price that’s probably a little too high, but… When you buy that first house, you’re nervous. It’s paid for, and it’s gotta get working on it. So when you get somebody out there, they give you a bid, you’re like, “Man, I don’t know…”, but this guy is here, and he might deliver. So people are inclined to take the first person that shows up, through no fault of their own. When you’re nervous, you take the first guy, and that’s what I did – I took the guy. He did the job, but he gave me a hard time – he went over schedule, he went over budget… It was like babysitting a full-grown adult; I couldn’t take it.

So you go and you find the next person, and eventually — people say “How do you find a good contractor?” I’m like, “Go through five bad ones first.”

Joe Fairless: Right. Any questions that you would ask, knowing what you know now, with the good contractor that you married, and the bad ones – any questions you would ask if your good contractor were to go away unfortunately, and you had to find someone else?

 Alex Felice: Yeah, don’t even talk about that…

Joe Fairless: I don’t wanna put that out in the world, sorry.

 Alex Felice: I had an old boss who told me once, he goes “Be slow to hire, and quick to fire.” That advice is really good. So if you’re looking for a contractor, what I’d say is go take this guy to lunch every Friday for a month. And if he’ll sit there and he’ll give you his time and he’ll let you build a relationship with him, then odds are he’s gonna work for your interests. But if you find somebody that’s just trying to get the transaction, there’s no hope. There’s no way that they can be that good if they’re just trying to do the transaction. You have to build a relationship with these people, they have to be aligned with your long-term goals. There’s no other way it really works… Not great; it might work okay, you can huddle through bad contractors and still be successful, but I don’t think that’s the ideal way to do it. So find somebody that you can go slow with.

I don’t know about any specific questions that I could think of right now, that I would say, other than ask a lot of them, and make sure that somebody will stick around to let you ask a lot of them. People who are going quick, or trying to be transactional, or just trying to get the job – you’ll notice; let them go.

Joe Fairless: What are your thoughts on if a contractor who is qualified and listening to this interview and they’re thinking, “Well, I definitely hear you on being aligned with your long-term goals, but going to a meeting with a potential client of mine once a week for four weeks straights, and I also have all these other jobs that I’m working on… I wouldn’t have time to do that.” What are your thoughts?

 Alex Felice: Well, don’t pin me to specifics. I just mean find somebody that — for instance, people that I do business with now, I’ll talk to them on e-mail and it’s like, “Give me a month. Let me talk to you again. Are you still gonna be around…?” The contractor that I used on the first deal, by the time he was done with my job, he left town. Right after he was done. So if I had just waited and said “Let me talk to this guy in three weeks, just an e-mail or a phone call…” It doesn’t have to be like I said, every week, but all I mean is be slow to hire; get good referrals, get good references, talk to other people that do what you’re doing in town, and they should help you.

I don’t have a perfect solution. All I know is you’ve gotta find people and you’ve really gotta fire the bad ones quick.

Joe Fairless: Sure. Okay. With your portfolio, you’ve got seven houses currently… When was the last purchase made? How many months ago?

 Alex Felice: October 25th I closed.

Joe Fairless: Okay, 2-3 months ago from when we’re doing this interview… What’s your plan for that deal and what are the numbers?

 Alex Felice: We paid 50k, rehab will be 13k, ARV is gonna be 100k, conservatively…

Joe Fairless: Oh, that’s  a good one.

 Alex Felice: It’s pretty good. That one should be rented any day now, and then as soon as we have the tenant in place and a contract, I can get an appraiser out there; underwriting will take me — I do underwriting for a living, so I’m a master… Underwriting will take me 2,5 weeks to close a loan that will be in my bank account. So this one will take less than 12 weeks.

Joe Fairless: And I’m sure you’ve been asked about this before – diversification. You’re in Fort Bragg, there’s a clear employer there, but all of your properties are in one area. How do you think about that from a risk standpoint?

 Alex Felice: I think about this all the time. Look, here’s what happens – I was broke, and I thought I could get ten properties in ten years, and make a little nest egg, because I’m a lazy idiot. I just need to do the bare minimum to retire, so I don’t have to work every day. And it really picked up way faster than I thought. I never imagined to get here so fast. So I’m now looking at my whole strategy differently. This is a really good process, it works, but it’s not really scalable. So what I need to do is, like you said, a different geography, and build two of these systems in two different cities at least, and certainly scale. I’m working on multifamily currently.

Like you said, there’s certainly risk in concentration of both asset class and geography, and it’s something I think about every day, but like everybody, I’m working with scarce resources, so… It’s on my to-do list.

Joe Fairless: Fair enough. Well, that’s impressive what you’ve built, the portfolio. How long since you purchased your first property?

 Alex Felice: Just over two years.

Joe Fairless: So two years, seven houses. What’s the value of all the houses? I’m guessing they’re around 70k-80k a pop?

 Alex Felice: Yeah, a little over that, but not much. Maybe 90k or 100k, but yeah.

Joe Fairless: Wow. When you think about your business as a commercial banker, what are some advantages that you’ve had as being focused in commercial banking, as you’re building your portfolio?

 Alex Felice: Let me tell you, underwriting really is a super-massive advantage… Because if you ever wanna go borrow money, the standard for underwriting is banking. Now, private lenders and hard money lenders might do their own metrics, but they base everything off the banking standard. So understanding how a bank looks at a loan, it helps tremendously, because I understand going in what the underwriting is gonna look at, what they wanna see for collateral, what they wanna see for cashflow, how they wanna see it on a Schedule E… I look at business Schedule E’s all day, every day, and it’s a fantastic advantage, to say the least.

Joe Fairless: Will you elaborate on that?

 Alex Felice: Well, for instance, people come to me all the time and they say “How much money down do I need?” versus “What LTV does the bank want?” and “Why are they gonna want this collateral over that collateral?” For instance, I’ve got a friend who flips houses, and from a business perspective, flipping houses is fantastic; but from a bank loan perspective, it’s terrible, the way they look at a balance sheet. So I learned this pretty quickly in, and I’m not saying anything bad about flipping, but it doesn’t work for me because banks only care about cashflow. So these advantages, where I can see the risk on paper – maybe not better or worse, but just differently – have helped guide my strategy.

Joe Fairless: Based on your experience both as a commercial banker, as well as investing in the single-family homes, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

 Alex Felice: I’ve thought about this a lot, actually… I hate to be so vague, but PEOPLE. You need people. If you wanna know what the bank is thinking, go talk to the bank, make friends with them, and learn what they want, build a relationship. Contractors – the same way; you’ve gotta build a relationship. I know it’s not easy. Realtors – same thing. Go to conferences. I’m going to your conference… You’ve gotta meet people. The more time I spend meeting good people and finding good people to help them first (hopefully), the more time that they’ll spend helping me, and really that is the biggest key. I know it’s vague and abstract, but that is THE biggest thing that I’ve done to help my business.

Joe Fairless: What’s an example of when you first met someone, you helped them first, before you were helped by them?

 Alex Felice: I’ve got a buddy named Lee. He reached out to me about five years ago through the internet, and–

Joe Fairless: What method through the internet? How did they come across you?

 Alex Felice: Social media. And he said, “Hey, I know you invest in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and I invest there [unintelligible [00:16:19].22] We should meet.” So  I go out there, I meet this guy, casual, just making friends… So I said, “Look, I know this area. I can help you with boots on the ground, no problem.” He had a few houses; I said “This guy can probably teach me, and he’ll teach me more if I make him some money.” Sure enough, a few weeks go by and a wholesaler sends me a deal that — honestly, I was too scared to take this deal down, and I should have. It was a $50,000 house, it was already rented, $900/month. It was done. And I said “I’m too scared to take this deal down, because it’s my first one. Lee, you take this house. Here you go. I don’t want anything. Just take it.” Well, sure enough, he closed in like five days. And that’s when it’s everything set up; I said, “Oh, I should have got it myself.”

I made this guy some money, and I helped him out with giving him advice on the area, this and that, and now five years later he’s the one that helped me put together my website, which is — over the last year, my exposure has gone stratospheric thanks to him. And that relationship has built tremendously. He’s the one that taught me how to travel-hack, and he introduced me to people, he’s the one that got me to go to FinCon… So just this small little thing – always make money for somebody else first, and then on their way up, you can probably catch their coattails if you did a good job. But always make money for people first, and it’ll work out. Just make everybody else rich and you’ll have no chance to get there.

Joe Fairless: Help everyone get what they want, and you’ll eventually get everything you want. That’s a quote that I constantly reference. I think it’s Zig Ziglar; I don’t know if anyone said it before him, but I attribute it to Zig Ziglar.

 Alex Felice: Yeah. It’s so annoying, because I’m a capitalist-first, I’m not that charitable; sometimes it can feel a little weird. This year I started inviting people to come to me, and I help them buy houses like I buy. And what I should do is turnkey – buy the house, rehab it, sell it somewhat retail, with a tenant in place, and sell to them and take the 20k. What I did instead was I said “Look, give me a small fraction of that, 2k-3k, and I’ll teach you how to do it, I’ll give you my contractor, I’ll give you my property manager, I’ll give you my realtor, I’ll give you my title guy, I’ll give you my insurance lady, they all make money, I make a small bit, and the client, the friend – they make the 20k-30k in equity plus the cashflow.”

I’ve done this a bunch of times, and I have to compete against them now. It’s really charitable, and it’s really annoying, and my hope is that I’ll make all these people enough money that we’ll grow together in the long run. It’s frustrating sometimes to do it this way, but it’s way better to give — let me tell you something… It is the biggest ego ride to be so good that you can make somebody else money, and that’s way better for me than to actually cash checks. [laughs]

Joe Fairless: It certainly makes you feel good when you help other people make money… And then obviously, consequently – well, not obviously, but consequently, everyone benefits, yourself included.

We’re gonna do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

 Alex Felice: I’m always ready baby.

Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:18:57].22] to [00:19:46].25]

Joe Fairless: Okay, best ever book you’ve recently read?

 Alex Felice: Sapiens.

Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?

 Alex Felice: That deal I did across country. I hadn’t seen it, and I had to borrow money to get it, and it made me 30k.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

 Alex Felice: Oh my god, there’s so many… Hiring the wrong people.

Joe Fairless: What’s another one?

 Alex Felice: Not being decisive enough.

Joe Fairless: What’s the best ever way you like to give back?

 Alex Felice: I teach everybody what I do, all this stuff, and I write all my deals out, I teach everybody everything I know for free; I don’t sell anything, it’s all on my website. I’m as charitable as I can possibly be.

Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners learn more about what you’ve got going on?

 Alex Felice: Brokeisachoice.com, check me out. I’m not hard to find.

Joe Fairless: Well, Alex, thank you so much for being on the show, talking about your business model that you use, with the BRRR method with delayed financing, and getting into the specifics of the deals, how you identified the business model, and then how it works. And the keys to the business model, the contractor being one of them, and two, having the strategy and just the structure for how to pull off a deal like that based on your expertise as a commercial banker.

I really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for being on the show. I hope you have a best ever day, we’ll talk to you soon, and I’ll also see you at the conference.

 Alex Felice: Thank you so much. I had a blast.

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Luke Weber and Joe Fairless

JF1282: Flipping Crazy! 300+ Flips Total, 40 Active Flips, Lessons Learned Along the Way with Luke Weber

Luke has completed over 300 flips and has 40 flips currently going at this moment. From getting started in your own backyard, to expanding nationwide, Luke has flipping tips for every level flipper. From how to find deals, finding contractors, how to evaluate a deal, and more, if you’re a flipper or want to be bring pen and paper when you listen to this one! If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


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Luke Weber Real Estate Background:

Actively flipping across the country with 40+ active projects at a time at The Missing Pieces

A former appraiser, flipped his first house in 2003, over 300 flips later

Author of The Flipping Blueprint, which is full of tips, tricks and formulas used in his current business

-Luke and his family explore the world with the freedom created from RE investing

-Say hi to him at https://www.facebook.com/lue.web

-Based in Las Vegas, Nevada

-Best Ever Book: The Entrepreneur Roller Coaster


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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluff. With us today, Luke Weber. How are you doing, Luke?

Luke Weber: Good, Joe. Thanks for having me.

Joe Fairless: Well, my pleasure, my friend. Nice to have you on the show. A little bit about Luke – he is actively flipping across the country with more than 40 active projects at this time. He is the author of the book “The Flipping Blueprint”, which is full of tips and tricks and formulas that he uses in his current business.

He’s a former appraiser, and he flipped his first house in 2003. He’s done over 300 flips since then. Based in Las Vegas. With that being said, Luke, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Luke Weber: Sure. As you said, I’m a former real estate appraiser. I got my license in 2001, and that was kind of the start of my real estate journey. I bought my first flip in 2003. That was actually my first house, and I’ve flipped it and made over $80,000 profit on it, and that kind of set the fire for me.

Joe Fairless: Wow. Every deal has been that profitable and more since then, right?

Luke Weber: No, no… Of course not. [laughter] You take some bumps and bruises along the way until you really figure this business out. Just like anyone else that was investing in real estate when the market crashed, I got hurt. Luckily, I ran a very successful real estate appraisal business that kept me going through there, but then 2010 rolled around and I saw that “Hey, the market’s primed; I’ve gotta get back into flipping and buying rentals”, and I started doing about a flip every couple months.

By 2012 I was investing with a buddy of mine, and I said “Hey, let’s turn this into a real business.” We hung up our appraiser licenses and started our flipping empire, if you will. We have been growing that business since.

Joe Fairless: You started out focused in Las Vegas, right? Your backyard?

Luke Weber: Yeah, it’s a natural progression to flip where you are. It’s easier, and when we really took a look at making it into a business in 2012, we said “Okay, what else should we do?” and one of those ideas was “Let’s expand it into another market.” We’d already flipped next door, in Phoenix, and some stuff in California, but we wanted to really expand, so we looked all the way over to Florida. Then in 2013 and 2014 we did a bunch of flips out there, but then we brought it back home and said “You know what, we’re making the same margins, it’s more work… Let’s double down on Vegas and spend our time, our money, our energy here and get that perfected, and then we’ll grow out again as we see fit.”

Joe Fairless: Okay, and what did you learn that second go-around in Vegas that you applied to your business?

Luke Weber: There are a lot of deals out there. Investing remotely is cool, it’s sexy, it’s fun, but if you’re not making bigger profits for the bigger risk and work involved in it, not worth it. If you have a market that you’re in that has over 100,000 people in it, you’re gonna have deals there, and you just have to keep networking and growing and make yourself be known as the go-to guy.

Joe Fairless: So you’re advocating that if you have over 100,000 in your market, then you might as well set up shop within your market and focus on that, because you’ve got a home court advantage?

Luke Weber: That is exactly it. There’s something to be said when that problem happens on the houses, because problems do happen when you’re flipping houses. If you’re remote, everything takes longer and costs you a heck of a lot more money. If it’s in your backyard, you can take care of it instantly.

Joe Fairless: I read a bullet point that I have in your bio – and I don’t know if this is accurate or not, because sometimes things are copy and pasted in here in my notes that aren’t accurate… Fact-check me on this – it says “actively flipping across the country, with 40+ projects.” Can you elaborate on that?

Luke Weber: Yeah, so now that we’ve doubled down, tripled down in Vegas, we decided to expand back out. Although Vegas is my primary market and always will be, we have active projects in Reno, Phoenix and Houston right now.

Joe Fairless: Okay. What systems or recommendations do you have for fix and flippers to implement if they were to scale? They’ve reached their tipping point in the market that they’re in and now they wanna scale out somewhere else, what would you tell them?

Luke Weber: You’ve really gotta do your research. One of the things that I do whenever I go into a new market, I go slow. For instance, we’re expanding into Houston now. Whenever there’s a natural disaster, there’s need for houses to be redeveloped, and we’ve looked at it in the past with Oklahoma City with the tornados, and Katrina, and in New Orleans and in a few other places, fires in the West, but whenever we get into it, we wanna go slow.

It might look like it’s a deal, but you really have to know your numbers, you wanna know your inventory levels, you wanna really know your contractors. I start slow because I don’t wanna expand to 5-10 flips going at a single time in a market, unless I know my contractors are good and can handle it. We were closing our first one in Houston in the last week, we’ve got another one coming up in a couple weeks here, and we’ve been trying out a couple different contractors, make sure the numbers pencil out, for real world, not just on paper… And then we’ll expand with that.

Joe Fairless: How did you meet your contractor? Do you have a general contractor who’s overseeing it locally that you already have a relationship with?

Luke Weber: Yes, that’s the way I like to do it. Right now I’ve got 42 active projects going. 23 or so are under construction, so we’re not subbing out the work ourselves; it just doesn’t work. We have  general contractors, lead handymen, depending on the projects, that are the individuals that we go to. We meet them any way we can – networking, referrals, Craigslist ads… Just driving around and seeing a dumpster and leaving a card saying “Hey, I’ve got work if you want it.”

I was actually out in Houston and we already had a contractor out there. One of our prior contractors from Vegas moved out to Houston a few years ago, and that was an open opportunity for us, kind of a foot in the door into that market, if you will. But as I drove around the neighborhoods there, any flooded community – there’s signs in a third of the yards that are out there of a contractor that’s working. So I took a lot of pictures and grabbed a lot of cards while I was out there, and I’ve got 20+ contractors that I can get quotes from to figure out who my go-to guys are gonna be.

Joe Fairless: Now let’s talk more local level, because perhaps some Best Ever listeners who are fixing and flipping want to stay local… And I imagine most fix and flippers end up staying local, versus scaling out. I’m guessing you’re probably in the 5% of fix and flippers who scale as far out as you’re doing. So let’s bring this back home a little bit for most of the Best Ever listeners who are doing fix and flipping.

Your book, The Flipping Blueprint, has tips and tricks and formulas that you use in your current business, so what are some of those that you can share with fix and  flippers who are focused on scaling their business locally?

Luke Weber: It’s really a rinse and repeat, and you just have to keep going out and networking. Number one, you never stop looking for properties, you never stop looking for money, you never stop looking for contractors, whether you’re doing it remotely or just doing one or two deals a year. A lot of fix and flippers out there aren’t full-time investors; they have a day job and they kind of do it on the side, and try to do three or four flips a year. But you should always be looking; never stop. That’s the number one thing.

Go out to the meetings, talk to people, let people know what you are doing, and that’s how you are going to build your overflowing inbox of deals that you get to just keep looking at until you find the one that’s gonna pencil out for you… Find more contractors that say “Yeah, I’m happy to give you a quote on your property.” Never stop looking for contractors, money or properties.

Joe Fairless: What is the best way that you have found properties, money and contractors? I’m sure each of those three are different. I’m guessing each of the three have a different way, so what’s the number one way you’ve found each of those three?

Luke Weber: For contractors, I really think driving around and finding — usually you’ll have the big dumpsters; you’ll look in the dumpster and you see there’s some drywall, maybe a toilet, some cabinets and some carpet in there… Then the house is probably getting a full remodel. Talk to that contractor. You get to immediately see their work that they’re doing; if the guys are sitting around smoking and drinking a beer, that’s probably not the contractor you want. But if it’s a clean job site, the quality of the work looks good… Not necessarily the materials, because the investor picks the materials, but the quality of work should be done right. That’s really what I think is the best way to find the contractor. Real-world, you get to see what they’re doing, and you get to decide “Do I want this person to potentially do deals for me?” And they’re out there.

Joe Fairless: Is there a way to do some research on the internet ahead of time, that way you’re not driving around hoping that you find some contractors on the job?

Luke Weber: You know what, each city is different… A lot of your bigger projects already have a general contractor doing maybe $50,000+ worth of work is gonna file a lien against the property (a contractor’s lien). So that’s one way, to do an online search. But also, if you see other properties that are being purchased… So if you have MLS access or your realtor is sending you deals and you can see the property and you’re like “Man, that’s gotta be a full gut, that’s gotta be a flip”, it’s not something that someone’s gonna move into it – just keep a list of those properties, and then pick Saturday afternoon, go for a nice drive, and go drive by 10, 15, 20 of those houses, and you might find contractors working at them a couple weeks after they’ve closed.

Joe Fairless: That’s a great tip, thank you for sharing. I haven’t heard of that before. That’s very valuable. What about money? The number one way you found money.

Luke Weber: I’m not a golfer…

Joe Fairless: Me neither.

Luke Weber: But I do like a tasty beverage every once in a while…

Joe Fairless: Me too.

Luke Weber: So I’ll be out at a bar or a networking event – and it doesn’t have to be real estate-related. It could be an entrepreneurial event, it could be just a City Council event… There’s events every day, in every city across the country, where you can go to them and you just talk to people and let them know what you’re doing. Doctors, and lawyers, and therapists – whatever; high income earners that are busy six, seven days a week, doing their day job – they don’t have the time to invest in their own real estate, but they’re savvy enough to know that there’s a lot of money to be made in real estate.

You say, “Yeah, I invest in real estate and I have private investors”, their ears will perk up. “Hey, I’ve got 300k sitting in an IRA that’s doing nothing for me. What can you do with that?” So you do a research on where high net worth individuals will be drunk and then you got hit them up for money?

Luke Weber: Exactly!

Joe Fairless: [laughs]

Luke Weber: Fish in a barrel. And it’s always a soft pitch; that’s really the best way to do it. You just let them know what you’re doing, and then they’re like “Oh, well I’d be interested in that.” You say, “Here’s my information. The next projects I get I’ll send you something over and you can take a look at it”, but you don’t need to follow up with them 6, 7, 8 times. You want them chasing you.

Joe Fairless: How do you get them to chase you?

Luke Weber: There’s a few different ways. Typically, when I’m talking to somebody I’ll let them know that all my current projects are funded by my other investors, but when I have another opportunity I’ll put it out at them. But I also let them know that they’re getting a first look at it… I’ll say “Hey, you know what? I’ll give you a 24-hour first look at it, otherwise I’m gonna put it with one of my other guys.” That lights the fire to “Oh man, I actually have to do this!” It’s time, right? So that’s one way to get them calling you back and saying, “Okay, yeah, I’ll take it.” Or “Hey, can I get a little more information on it?”

What I love doing is I will put them maybe in a group e-mail where if — they’re a new investor and I don’t think they’re ready to pull the trigger yet, so I’ll send out a group e-mail, and it might be just them and my investor that’s going to fund this deal, that I know is already lined up and ready to go, and then I’ll send them an e-mail the next day after my other guy is committed to it. It’s just an e-mail that says, “Hey, thank you for everyone’s responses. This deal has already been funded.”

Now they’ve missed out on an opportunity that somebody else jumped on, so it must have been a great opportunity. That way they’re gonna act faster… I actually will get phone calls or e-mails saying “Hey Luke, I didn’t act fast enough. I want the next one. I’ve got 200k ready to go, send me your next one.”

Joe Fairless: Just a very tactical question – when you send out that initial e-mail, is everyone else’s e-mail on that?

Luke Weber: Never.

Joe Fairless: Never, okay. So it’s BCC, right?

Luke Weber: Yeah, blind carbon copy everything.

Joe Fairless: That’s what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure. And thank you for those. When I do my little summary at the end, I’ve written down some very insightful things that you’ve said. Properties – the number one way you’re finding properties?

Luke Weber: Right now I actually am getting most of my properties from wholesalers. I’m still buying one or two a month off the MLS, but wholesalers are my number one go-to avenue for properties. I decided to not spend my money in doing 50,000 mailers a month to do my lead generation. I do some targeted mailings and some targeted Facebook ads, things like that, but I go out and personally network; I hold quarterly events to have people come and I feed them and give them drinks again…

Joe Fairless: [laughs] There’s a consistent theme here.

Luke Weber: Yeah. Well, you know what? If you’re gonna build a business for yourself, you might as well do it the way you like to do it and live your life…

Joe Fairless: Yup… And you’re in Vegas too, so it kind of falls in line with the theme too, right?

Luke Weber: Yeah. Our last three or four parties that we’ve thrown, we’ve actually had people from multiple states come to the event, people that maybe know me from Facebook and they’re like “Oh, you’re having a party? I’d love to meet you. I wanna have you sign the book” or whatever. I’m like, “Yeah, man. Come on over.” I don’t charge people $20 and then give them a sales pitch, like a lot of meetups do. I create a networking event for everybody to be at, and if I get one deal out of these – I meet a new wholesaler who’s gonna bring me a deal…

My last party cost me about $3,000. We had 50 people plus or minus there, food, drinks, we did a raffle giveaway, but I’ve gotten multiple deals form it already, so at the tune of probably 60k+ in profit.

Joe Fairless: And you had fun.

Luke Weber: Yeah, and it adds value to people to, because as you can tell already, I’m not really holding stuff back, I’m sharing a lot of information…

Joe Fairless: Oh yeah.

Luke Weber: And in the book I do it, too… So if people have a question, I like to have an answer for them.

Joe Fairless: Yeah. I’ve interviewed a lot of fix and flippers and I’ve had really good conversations with them. You’ve provided new stuff that I hadn’t come across before on each of these three, and a different way of looking at it. Regardless of if — hopefully, I’m sure the Best Ever listeners have picked up on this… Regardless of it we’re fix and flippers or not – which I am not – I can still (and you, Best Ever listeners) pick up on some of these tips and apply them to our own business and type of investing that we do. That’s what I love about this.

Luke Weber: Yeah. A lot of these principles carry over for rentals. I’ve bought and sold rental portfolios, I’ve bought apartment buildings, a lot of different private investing and things, but the principles really hold true, whether you’re doing a rental or a flip; you should know what your inventory levels are, and what your numbers come out to. And there’s all different ways to find rentals or apartments, as you know, and a lot of it has to do with networking.

Joe Fairless: Yup, I completely agree. Relationships. That’s what it boils down to. What is your best real estate investing advice ever?

Luke Weber: You know, it really comes down to you have to know your market, both at a micro and macro scale, the big and small. For instance, in Las Vegas I know that I have 1.69 months of inventory right now of single-family houses. I mainly deal in single-family houses, and I wanna know if that number is going up or down, because you have to know – or you want to know – what your power is. If you’re renting out properties, you wanna know what the inventory levels are for that too, because can you ask for more rent? Can you get a higher demand? If there’s more inventory, do you have to acquiesce to the seller or the renter demands? Who has the power? That really stems from knowing the numbers.

Joe Fairless: Is 1.69 good or bad?

Luke Weber: That’s great, I love it.

Joe Fairless: What’s bad?

Luke Weber: Once you’re over four months, I consider that bad. Four months of inventory. Three to four months, I’m gonna be pretty cautious on that; I’m gonna look for a higher profit margin. Under three months is good, under two is great. With that 1.69 months that we have in Vegas, really, that’s total single-family, from a $50,000 house to a 20 million dollar house. So when you look at affordable, entry-level housing which most flips end up being – in Vegas that’s like sub-$300,000 – there’s less than a half month of inventory, and that means that people don’t have a lot to pick from. It is a seller’s market. I get to command what happens on my deals.

Joe Fairless: Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Luke Weber: Let’s do it.

Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:20:23].18] to [00:21:11].18]

Joe Fairless: What’s the best ever book you’ve read?

Luke Weber: The Entrepreneur Roller Coaster is my go-to answer on these ones… By Darren Hardy. I love that book. It’s simple, it’s easy, but it’s lots of little quick tips, great little nuggets.

Joe Fairless: I will check that out, I hadn’t heard of that one before. I heard of Darren Hardy, but not the book. What’s the best ever deal you’ve done that wasn’t your first and wasn’t your last?

Luke Weber: I was gonna say my first one…

Joe Fairless: 90% of the people say their first deal, for XYZ reasons, or the deal that they just did. I think they say that because they haven’t actually seen all the nastiness that’s gonna come with it, that they’re eventually gonna come across. That’s why in 2018, when I remember, I’m excluding the first and last deal on this question.

Luke Weber: I like it. So the one that stands out for me is I did a ranch house here in Vegas, it was on about an acre. I think Vegas, the Western states [unintelligible [00:22:04].09] stacked on top of each other, and that’s what a lot of investors were going for. Instead, I just look at deals, whether it’s a manufactured home or a permit building. If I can make money, I’m gonna buy it. This one I bought for – I’ve gotta remember the numbers; it was probably about three or four years ago now… I bought it for (I think it was) $150,000, I put $40,000 into it, so it was a pretty extensive remodel, and I sold it for $320,000.

Joe Fairless: Wow.

Luke Weber: Nobody else was going after these properties, and I think it’s not the best ever because of the fact that it made six figures, because I’ve had multiples of those, but it’s the best ever because it confirms that I can make money on all different types of inventory. I’m not just saying “I want a house built after 1990 that’s [unintelligible [00:22:55].15] 3-bed 2-bath and has a 2-car garage, because I know that will sell. Everything’s gonna sell if you list it at the right price… But you have to buy it at the right price. I think that’s probably why I’m saying that’s my answer for this one.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

Luke Weber: Back before the market crashed, I was investing then, but I wasn’t following the market close enough. I was paying attention, as an appraiser, but I really didn’t know how to react to it, and I think that was probably one of the biggest things, and something that I’ve definitely learned and hold true since I got back into investing in 2010, and here on out – know your market and react to it.

Joe Fairless: Are you taking your money from the flips and buying some long-term holds?

Luke Weber: Yes and no. ’10, ’11, ’12 I bought a lot of rentals; last year we sold a lot of those, because they weren’t high-quality rentals that you want for a long-term portfolio. We cashed out a lot of our rentals, so that we could fuel our flips, because right now the cap rates aren’t anywhere near where we want them, so it’s not something that sexy for us. But if something does come up, we will definitely still look at it and buy it… But right now, we’re getting ready for whenever that next crash does happen, or that next down-tick does happen. We’re pretty liquid on our flips. They go about 120 days total, from when we buy it to when we sell it, so we can react fast, cash out, have a big chunk of cash, so that we can get some of those large-scale 100-unit plus apartments, or just high-quality single-family houses at their cheap prices when that crash does happen.

Joe Fairless: What’s the best ever way you like to give back?

Luke Weber: I’ve got two answers for this, because one is business-related… I started doing this at my meetups, where we used to just give out door prizes. And I thought “You know what? There’s some really good charities here in town that need help”, and we went with one called SafeNest, that is a battered women and displaced children kind of place. It does have something to do with housing, so it kind of fits for us. Because we  actually see a lot of that; there’s definitely a human element to what we do, and any money that we raise in the raffle at our events, we match it 100%. That’s an awesome thing, to go — and I don’t talk a lot about this because I don’t do it to say “Hey, I did this”, I do it to help. It’s awesome to be able to just give them that check and say “Here you go, help people that need it.”

My second answer to that is I coach my son’s soccer team. Giving back to children some way, teaching them how to work as a team and grow together I think is great, and real estate investing allows me to do this, where I see other dads that might make one game a season, because they’re too busy working; they’re working an 8-to-7 job six days a week. I’m happy that I can provide that weekly stability for some of these kids, and it’s a pretty awesome feeling.

Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you, Luke?

Luke Weber: Facebook. I’m on Facebook for business. You don’t see a lot of my family on there, because I do it with purpose. If you wanna find me, find me on Facebook – Luke Weber. I know you’ll have all the links…

Joe Fairless: Yup.

Luke Weber: …and get into the Flipping Group page, too. I’m happy to answer your questions there.

Joe Fairless: Go get that book. I will put the link in the show notes page to the Facebook account. And Luke, thank you so much for being on the show. This really was helpful for anyone in any type of real estate. The tips that you have — initially, I asked about for fix and flippers; what you gave is for fix and flippers, but also for others, it turns out.

Number one way to find contractors is go drive around, find the job sites of contractors – you can do some research beforehand, so you’re not just driving around aimlessly. Then reach out to them, assuming that their job site is clean and the quality of their work is good.

The number one way to find money is you get rich people drunk — I’m kidding… Kind of. I’m kind of kidding. You go to networking events and you implement three things. One is scarcity, two is exclusivity, and three is fear of missing one. One is scarcity, the “All my projects are funded” (because they are, at that point). Two is exclusivity, “…but I’ll give you a first look at it”, so that they feel special. Three is fear of missing out; once it is booked up, then you send the follow-up e-mail, “Thanks for everyone’s responses, it’s booked. Better luck next time.” Of course, not in those words… And that is the fear of missing out.

Then with the number one way you find properties is through wholesalers, through relationships… And you have fun, you enjoy yourself. You create these events where you invite people. I love how you went into the cost of executing an event (about $3,000) – food, drinks, raffle etc., giveaway to charities, and the profits from that are more than 20 times. That’s an incredible ROI.

Thanks for being on the show, I’m really grateful you’ve spent some time with us. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Luke Weber: Thanks, Joe.

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Edwin Dearborn and Joe Fairless

JF1265: Generating Real Estate Leads Using Facebook & YouTube #SkillSetSunday with Edwin Dearborn

Edwin grew up with his mom being a realtor in Orange County, California. He’s been around real estate for a long time, and spent 10 years in digital marketing. When the economy collapsed around 2007, he thought (correctly so) that social media was going to be how businesses grow in the future. Today he shares a lot of tips with us on how we can attract leads using social media. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


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Edwin Dearborn Background:

-CEO of Premiere Lead Systems

Featured in the Huffington Post, Entrepreneur, Social Media Today and other national media outlets

-Author of Amazon bestseller, Power Branding Secrets

-Say hi to him at www.premierleadsystems.com

-Based in Las Vegas, Nevada


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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.

I first off hope you’re having a best ever weekend. Because today is Sunday we’ve got a special segment for you called Skillset Sunday where you’re going to come away with a specific skill that perhaps you didn’t have otherwise, or if you did, then you’re gonna be able to hone it and take it to another level. We’re gonna be talking about lead generation via Facebook and YouTube, and we’re doing that with Edwin Dearborn. How are you doing, Edwin?

Edwin Dearborn: Great, man. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

Joe Fairless: My pleasure, nice to have you on the show. Edwin is the CEO of Premiere Lead Systems; he’s been featured in Huffington Post, Entrepreneur, Social Media Today and a bunch of other media outlets. He’s the author of the book Power Branding Secrets, and I’ve got his website in the show notes, so you can just click that and check it out.
With that being said, Edwin, before we dive into the specific tips for lead generation via Facebook and YouTube, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about yourself and what your focus is?

Edwin Dearborn: Yeah, I grew up in Orange County, California, and my mom was a realtor back in the ’70s, so I grew up in real estate and got to see my mom go out and show houses and do all that stuff. This is back in the day of Yellow Pages and rolodexes, right? And canvassing and all that type. Obviously, the technology has advanced greatly in how real estate agents are able to build their presence and generate leads.

In the last ten years I’ve worked in digital marketing. When the economy collapsed in 2007 – about 11 years ago – Facebook, Twitter, YouTube were all emerging, and I really saw that this was gonna be the future of how businesses were gonna build their reputation, connect with important people and audiences, and so I delved head first into it and I just became engrossed and enthused from day one, when all of this technology became really in its beginning stages.

Joe Fairless: I love it. Yeah, I’m excited for our conversation, because I definitely understand and agree with you the importance of being able to generate leads and brand awareness through the digital environment. So Facebook, YouTube lead generation – how should we approach our conversation?

Edwin Dearborn: Well, the first thing I tell realtors, particularly if they’re 45-50 years or older – I’m 54, but I have a young mind I feel, so technology doesn’t scare me… But when you get with older realtors, I tell them “Your mind is not rigged to learn this or adapt to this technology. The first thing that you’re gonna have to overcome in using CRMs, YouTube, Facebook, whatever have you is you’re gonna have to be willing to learn new skills and do things you haven’t done before. The world has changed dramatically, and if you don’t change with it, you’re gonna be in a museum with a dinosaur, and your brand  will become irrelevant simply because you’re not up to the times… So as I teach people and I coach people – and I’ve been to St. Louis, Seattle, I’m going to Seattle again in about a month to teach about 150 realtors how to use video… Las Vegas, Orange County – I’ve been all over the United States, teaching realtors about this, and I go “The first barrier is the willingness to learn.” Because I can teach you all the tactics, but if you haven’t changed your philosophy of how you’re going to approach your branding and lead generation, the tactics won’t do any good for you. You’ll resist the change.

So the first thing I tell people is you’ve gotta be willing to learn new skills, otherwise the tactics won’t mean anything to you.

Joe Fairless: Okay, noted. And since we’ve got Best Ever listeners listening who are choosing to listen and continuing to listen to this episode in particular, hook, line, sinker you’ve got us, now what’s the second thing?

Edwin Dearborn: The second thing is that device in your hand, that laptop or that mobile device more precisely, is your best marketing weapon, because with that mobile device you can create content and videos on the fly, and not only create it, but you can distribute it through Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter etc. What you have in your hand is not just something to make phone calls, which itself is important, but you have a content creation and distribution machine. It’s all right there. You don’t need fancy equipment, you don’t need expensive camera gear; believe me, an iPhone and your video apps, YouTube and Facebook – you’re in business right now. You can start creating content right now.

So what we wanna do now that you’ve got this instrument in your hand is we have to understand what audiences want. And what they want is they want information that answers their questions. Now, interestingly enough, when you become an author – and by definition in the dictionary, an author is a creator of anything, so you can author a podcast, like you do, you can author a book, you can author a video series, you can author a YouTube show… Anytime that we create content, we’re an author. Well, the word “authority” is derived from the word “author.” When you author content and you distribute that content, you become an authority, and I think you’ve probably seen this, where you get people listening to your podcasts and it’s like “Hey, Joe seems to know what he’s talking about, because he’s always talking about it and he’s putting up content.” I’m sure you’ve experienced that, yes?

Joe Fairless: Sure.

Edwin Dearborn: Okay, great. So what I tell realtors is what you wanna do is you wanna become your local authority about what you do. One of the drills that I have real estate agents do is I simply do this – all you wanna do is become the authority by answering questions. It’s called a search engine. People go to social media and they go to search engines to discover relevant, important information to them, information that’s relative to their lives.

So I go, “If you’ve been in the business for at least a few years, I guarantee you you can write down one of the top 20 or 25 or 30 questions that you get asked all the time.” It may be “How much money do I have to come up with for a down payment? What does my credit score have to be? What are the best neighborhoods to buy in my area?” etc. Write those questions down.

Well, you can get an inexpensive tripod, set up your iPhone, you can sit in your office and do Facebook live and go “Hey, on this week’s show I wanna answer a question, and the question is what does my credit score have to be for me to qualify for a home?” You may even have a guest, maybe you have a credit repair expert, or a banker, or a CPA, or whatever is relative — or it’s just you… And you answer that question, you take 3-5 minutes, and you go over some tips and some strategies about what they can do to improve their credit score to qualify for a loan. Well, you can take that Facebook Live video, go to your laptop, click on the video, upload it to your computer and then take that video file and upload it to YouTube and optimize it for local search. Because YouTube is owned by Google, and if you know how to optimize a YouTube video, it can actually appear in local search for keywords. Moreover, you can take that video link and share it on social media, you can e-mail it out to your e-mail database once a week, you do this one week show.

Well, believe me, 98% of the realtors are not doing this. They’re doing cold-calling, or canvassing neighborhoods, they’re going to these meetup groups and they may or may not be getting leads, whereas what we wanna do is have you grow your digital database and you start engaging it.

Somebody told me very intelligently many years ago, “Your net worth is in your network”, so what I tell realtors is 1) be proactive in building up your social network, get more followers on Facebook and LinkedIn, and then two, start putting out simple content answering questions, as well as putting out whatever your offerings are. As you engage with people, build up your e-mail database and send out that content as well to your e-mail database.

I give you one example of a realtor here in Las Vegas, Nevada… I was coaching this gentleman – he’s about 55 years old, never ever did a video in his life; one of these older gentlemen going “I don’t get it, I don’t get Facebook, I’m overwhelmed, I’m confused”, and he paid me to coach him on how to create video, because I said “Look, you just go around any Starbucks or airport, everybody is staring at their mobile device, and half the time they’re on Facebook and the other half they’re watching a video, so you might as well embrace video and Facebook, because that’s where the audience is”, yet that’s where the realtors are not.

So the opportunity for you to stand out as a brand is to create video. “Okay, I’ll take your word for it”, so he paid me, and I said “Okay, we’re gonna do a Facebook Live right now.” He’s like, “Right now?! We’re just gonna do it?”, I said “Yeah, we’re just gonna do it. So what’s a common question that you get asked all the time?” “Why should I move from California to Las Vegas?”, because if you’ve been to Las Vegas, there’s a lot of people that move from California because it’s less expensive, there’s no state income tax, there’s less traffic and less regulations in business. So a lot of Californians are moving over here.”

I said, “Great, why don’t you educate Californians on the benefits of moving from California to Las Vegas? Just tell me the top three benefits. We’re gonna make this like a 4-5 minute Facebook Live.” So we kind of rehearsed it a little bit, and I grabbed his camera and I put him right on Facebook Live, right on his feed. He looked as stiff as a board… He was like, “I’m doing this wrong…”, and I said “No, no, no. The only way you’re gonna learn is like riding a bicycle; you’re just gonna start doing it.”

He’s got 700-800 people on Facebook, and he’s doing this thing live, going “Hi, my name is Gary and I’m with Keller Williams, and I will tell you three top reasons why you should move from California to Las Vegas”, and he went over these reasons. So we did it, we published it… He was sweating, going “I can’t believe I was actually on a live video.” I said, “Yeah, it wasn’t that bad, was it?” He’s like, “No.”

Two minutes later, while we’re sitting there after the video is done, he gets a phone call — we’ll swear on a stack of Bibles, this actually happened… He gets a phone call and this lady says “Hey, Gary… Remember me?” and he’s like, “Oh yeah, we were friends in Phoenix, like 20 years ago.” She goes, “Yeah, I just saw your Facebook live.” He’s like, “What?” “Yeah, I’ve always wondered what happened to you… We’re friends on Facebook, you probably didn’t know that, and I’m in Phoenix now. If you ever wanna come up in Phoenix to do business, look me up.” And she goes, “It’s funny, because I have a friend living in San Diego who wants to move to Las Vegas, and I’m gonna share your Facebook live video.”

Well, about 15 minutes later, we’re still in the coaching session and he gets this phone call from the friend, the referral of the lady who saw him on Facebook Live, and said “I’m looking in about two years to sell my home and buy in San Diego, and buy a home cash in Las Vegas. Could you help me find a home in Las Vegas?” He put down the phone and Gary told me, he goes “Edwin, if I did not see it happen with my own eyes, I would have never believed it.” Well, we took one of his videos that he did on Facebook live, we uploaded it to YouTube, we optimized it… In the last three months he’s at 600 views on his video, all organic. He was blown away.

We had lunch last week and I said “Gary, you’re almost up to 600 views on YouTube” and he goes “I’ve done nothing with the video.” I go “Yeah, that’s just people searching the keywords, and there you are; you’re appearing on page number one for certain keywords on YouTube.” He goes “I’ve gotta do more videos.” I said, “Absolutely.”
So we sat down and we listed out the 30 questions that he gets asked all the time, and now we’re gonna be creating those videos for him. I can tell you right now, I created a video on YouTube, and this is where it really, really hit me, about three years ago.

I did a video, I put it on YouTube and I put it on Facebook, and within about a day on Facebook messenger I get this doctor reaching out to me from Copenhagen, Denmark. He goes “Hey, I watched your video… Would it be possible for you to deliver this service in Denmark?” and I said, “Well, I don’t speak Danish.” He goes, “No, no, no, 98% of Danes speak perfect English. We started on English in the second great.” I said, “Yeah, if we’re gonna do the videos in English, sure. You’ve gotta fly me over there and pay for my airfare and everything.” So he goes, “Well, how much does it cost for you to fly over and do a video?” and I said “Well…”, and I quoted a very high price; it was about $13,000 for me to come over and do a couple days’ worth of videos, “And you’ve gotta pay for my airfare and flight of me and my videographer.” He goes, “Well, do you take credit card?” I said, “Yes.” He gave me the credit card, and I spent a week in Denmark, shooting videos for this doctor. And it hit me, I was like, “Wow, it’s like… My 4-minute video pretty much sold somebody halfway across the planet, and he gave me a credit card through Facebook Messenger, and I got to travel to Europe, all expenses paid.” I was like, “Okay, this is the future of marketing.” It hit me like a ton of bricks.

It’s amazing that more and more people have not adapted to it, and this is why I went over that first point – you’re gonna have to embrace the new way that the world works. And if all you do is create videos and distribute them, that answer their intent… And here’s the key – you don’t have to sell as a realtor, because if all your videos are about selling, then no one’s gonna wanna consume your content. But if your content fills a void somehow – it either entertains or answers a question or gives insight, or you provide news updates about what’s happening in your marketplace, or you interview other experts, what that does is you start to become the Huffington Post of your area.

So instead of being a salesperson, you wanna start thinking like a journalist and start providing information and updates and insights. By just doing that over and over to your database, you will become an expert. So when they finally do wanna buy, they do wanna sell, who are they gonna pick? Just any realtor, or the guy who’s an expert, who’s been talking about it, right?

Joe Fairless: Yeah, absolutely.

Edwin Dearborn: People buy from experts. That’s what content marketing and video marketing can do for you – it actually positions you as the go-to expert.

Joe Fairless: This is such a practical guide for our Best Ever listeners to follow to get up and running, and I’m so grateful that you talked through not only the process, but also a case study that reinforces the process, or is an example of the process. I love the simplicity – because this is a very simple approach – and the reason why I love the simplicity is because this is the exact approach that I take, and it works for me and my business, and it could work for anyone else… And you’re so right – I agree with everything you’ve said – but one thing in particular that stood out to me is, I’m not a real estate agent, but I imagine that the other 98% of real estate agents are not doing this, and 2% who are, are getting disproportionate results because of their time that they’re putting into it… Just exponentially more ROI, and return on time as well, because of this approach, so thank you for walking through this step-by-step approach for this, and then the reason why behind the scenes we should do it.

Edwin Dearborn: Yeah, and just to take it one step further, Joe, in my book – this is a plug for my book, the shameless plug – Power Branding Secrets, in the last few chapters I actually go over step by step, and I literally mean numerical steps of how to develop, create and distribute content. It’s like making chocolate chip cookies; it’s literally like “Grab a pound of flour, now mix in the milk…” I literally walk everybody through — and the reason why I did that is in my ten years of working in digital marketing, the number one challenge that I heard over and over, from hundreds of people, was “It’s all overwhelming. I’m overwhelmed with everything that I have to do. Should I be on Twitter, should I be on Yelp?”, and I just said “No, we’re gonna take one thing, we’re gonna have you do one thing.”

So I decided to kind of put a gradient there and go “Okay, here’s just some simple steps… If you just do this… No, you’re not gonna be everywhere, you won’t master everything, but if I can get you to do one thing really well, and – just as importantly – consistently… If you consistently do this, you will build your brand.”

If you take a look at some of the best marketers on the planet in real estate or just in digital marketing – Gary Vaynerchuk, Grant Cardone – what do they do? They put out content over and over and over. They find out what people have questions about, they bring on awesome guests, and they just keep doing it. It has allowed them to stand heads and tails.
Now, I’m not saying that your guys are gonna become a Grant Cardone or a Gary Vaynerchuk, but you can become the Grant Cardone of your city, of your neighborhood, right? You can become locally famous and still make a lot of money as a realtor. So if you’re out there in Poughkeepsie, Illinois, 60,000 people, there’s plenty of business to do just in that city. Well, become Poughkeepsie famous.

Joe Fairless: Anything else as it relates to this topic that you wanna mention before we close out?

Edwin Dearborn: People ask me “What social media should I be on? Where should I be promoting?” and I said “Well, what is the one that you already know how to use?”, and they usually say Facebook. I say “Good, start with Facebook.” Don’t worry about the others. Don’t try to become everywhere. Take one platform, learn it well, practice with it, use it over and over, become comfortable with it, then you can go and do other things. Don’t overwhelm yourself with too much. Find one thing that you feel you can do well and then become proficient at it. That’s all you have to worry about, and you will grow in your ability to use digital marketing to grow your brand.

Joe Fairless: I’m really grateful for our conversation. This is probably the most practical advice for getting a thought leadership platform started that I’ve heard before, and the step-by-step process… I have two computers on my desk; one is the computer where I type notes, the other is my other — my other computer has just got e-mail and random stuff on it… But on the screen of my other computer – it’s got “Thank you, your order has been placed.” I’m on Amazon, I just bought your book, so I’m looking forward to getting into your book and reading that…

Thank you for being on the show… The step-by-step process – first, we’ve gotta be willing to learn… Checked that box; we’re Best Ever listeners, we’ve got that. Second, the mobile device is the best marketing weapon; we’ve all got that too, most likely. Third is know what our audience wants – and you answered that for us; they want information that answers their questions, so then the next step is to become your local authority about those topics or those answers, and you do that by answering the questions, so write down 30 questions that you get commonly asked… Answer those questions, put it on whatever platform you currently already know how to use, and do it consistently over time and you’re gonna see results, yes?

Edwin Dearborn: Absolutely.

Joe Fairless: Sweet. Well, Edwin, thank you for being on the show. How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?

Edwin Dearborn: Our website is PremiereLeadSystems.com. They can also reach me at EdwinDearborn@me.com. My phone number (my personal cell) is 714-300-9566.

Joe Fairless: Sweet. Well, thank you for being on the show. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Edwin Dearborn: Thanks, Joe.

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Business Referrals

JF1197: 90% Of Her Business Comes Through Referrals – What’s Her Secret? With Trish Williams

In just two years, Trish has sold over $10,000,000 in real estate volume. Her biggest source of referrals is Facebook. She posts at least every other day, and never in a “infomercial” type of way. Rather she posts normal things like what she is doing everyday, and just shares with her friends. She is able to stay in people’s minds when they need a realtor with this strategy. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


Best Ever Tweet:


Trish Williams Real Estate Background:

– Real estate agent and broker with Keller Williams – Las Vegas

– 2014 she started her career in Real Estate and was named Rookie Of The Year

– Biggest testament to her level of success is in that 90% of her business is referral based

2016 served as Technology Chair-member Of the Associate Leadership Council, and ranked number 5 in overall production in her brokerage

– In two short years she had already sold over 10 million dollars in real estate volume

– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada

– Say hi to her at: www.trishsellslv.com

– Best Ever Book: 6 Steps to 7 Seven Figures


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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluff. We’ve spoken to Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank, Robert Kiyosaki, author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and a whole bunch of others. With us today, Trish Williams. How are you doing, Trish?

Trish Williams: Hi, good morning. How are you?

Joe Fairless: Good morning. I’m doing well, and thanks for being on the show. A little bit about Trish – well, in two short years as a real estate agent, she has sold over ten million dollars of property, and she’s in Las Vegas… In 2014 she started her career in real estate and was named Rookie of the Year. Her biggest testament to her level of success is that 90% of her business is referral-based. She also works with some investors, and in 2016 served as a technology chair member of The Associate Leadership Counsel, and ranked number five in overall production in her brokerage, which is Keller Williams Las Vegas.

With that being said, Trish, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Trish Williams: Sure. Good morning, and thank you again for having me on the show. Basically, I got into real estate in 2014 towards the end of the year. Believe it or not, I was a union painter before I got into real estate…

Joe Fairless: I don’t believe that. No, that’s surprising.

Trish Williams: A lot of people don’t believe that. Most people, I tell them and they’re like, “What? How did that happen?” Well, I did more [unintelligible [00:03:39].27] a lot of custom homes… It just kind of got me a fascination with real estate, even though it wasn’t the same type of business that kind of got me fascinated in the build.

I decided to do it, just try it out and see what happens, and it’s been excellent ever since. This year one of my major focuses is I’m building a team now. In the beginning of the year I hired on a full-time admin, and I just took on my first buyer’s agent to join the team, and by the end of the year I hope I’m growing it by at least one more agent as well.

Joe Fairless: 90% of your business is referral-based… How do you get to that level? Other than performance, are there any tactical things that you do to get the 90%?

Trish Williams: You know, one of the major things that I use to gain business — for one, I was born and raised in Vegas, but it’s not just because I know so many people here… I use Facebook as a form of gaining referrals. Every time when I meet somebody – if I meet you at the grocery store and we have a conversation, I ask you your name and I’m gonna add you as a friend to my Facebook. And on Facebook I’m not marketing, I don’t ever wanna sound like a commercial… I’m just talking about what I do.

If I have an experience, if I’m out at a house and it has an amazing kitchen, I’m gonna post it. If I see something that has great investment potential, I’m gonna post it. But I’m not posting it like a commercial, I’m posting is as me, Trish, just letting people know what’s going on out here. That has brought me so many direct referrals….

Sometimes I don’t even really speak with or haven’t talked to in years, or don’t even know personally, will be “Hey, I need a house, I need to do this, I have a friend selling their house… You’re the one I choose.” So I build enough credibility on Facebook to get direct referrals off them.

Joe Fairless: That’s an interesting concept, and it’s something that it sounds like you’re taking the approach that perhaps some don’t initially take, and that is it’s not a commercial, but it’s more casually talking about, in a conversational sense, what you’re up to and some interesting things, versus “I have this listing, here’s a link to the MLS.”

Trish Williams: Yes, and I noticed that people have zero response to that. I mean, there is every now and then, if it’s exactly what they’re looking for, but people don’t wanna be advertised to. It’s just plain and simple, that’s not it.

If I get an award, I’m posting a picture of me with the award, or something happens – every success, I’m posting it, but there’s never an advertisement involved in it. I post videos all the time; video has such great response. People get used to seeing me, and even though they might not see me in everyday life, they know me, because I’m always posting these videos, and they’re not professional videos; sometimes my hair is crazy, or whatever, but I’m still a person, and people really like that.

Joe Fairless: What are the videos of?

Trish Williams: If I’ve been out door-knocking, I posted a video. You know, just “Hey, I’m out door-knocking this neighborhood. It’s a great day out, [unintelligible [00:06:41].10] people” and I show the yards of the neighborhood, or the view of the street, or something like that. If I’m at a new construction home, grand opening for a model home, I post a video of it… Just different things, whenever I’m out, that I think people might wanna see.

Joe Fairless: And before you became a real estate agent and broker, while you were a union painter and maybe even before that, were you really active on Facebook?

Trish Williams: No. I posted, yeah, but I was nowhere near as active as I am right now. I actually have a friend, she owns a restaurant, and she was voted Best of Las Vegas for years and years in a row, and I watch that and I’m seeing she does everything on Facebook; she’s always posting pictures of food, pictures of everything. She just drives people into there by posting, and when I got into real estate, I was looking at “How am I gonna get people to know who I am?” I don’t ever want to meet someone and get them on the big long laundry list with everything I’ve done. To me it’s annoying, and I never wanna do that, so I wanna build that credibility with people first, and that’s basically what she did. She had so much success from it, I just started doing it. I make it a habit, I post all the time. I’m not selfishly posting, I take time out of every day to scroll down, see what other people are doing, find out who’s birthday it is… I’m interacting with people, so I use Facebook as a big part of my life now.

Joe Fairless: If you meet someone at the grocery store and you have a good conversation with him or her, and you say “Hey, what’s your name? I’ll add you on Facebook” and they say “I’m not Facebook”, do you then have a different approach you take?

Trish Williams: Oh yeah, I always have information for market updates, for different things that are going on in the community… I can talk to you about giving you an estimate of what your home is worth if you’re a homeowner; if you’re looking to buy, I can tell you about all the different programs, “What’s a good way I can contact you?” There are people that aren’t on Facebook; not everybody is gonna be leeched on there.

Joe Fairless: How frequently do you post on Facebook?

Trish Williams: At least every other day. Every day I’m commenting on something for somebody; I’m checking it often and I’m doing some kind of post. But my own personal post that I post on there – probably at least every other day. And it’s not all business, I post personal things, too. I stay out of politics, I stay out of any kind of things that are controversial. I never ever post anything that has to do with those. I don’t wanna alienate people whatsoever, so I always keep kind of a neutral stance, and stay positive, and just try to be the person that people really wanna work with.

Joe Fairless: Do you have any other approaches to social media or Facebook specifically, whether it’s commenting on other people’s posts or replying to comments, or always liking every single thing…? Is there anything else other than what you’ve mentioned?

Trish Williams: No, I try to stay genuine when I scroll through Facebook. I’m not gonna like everybody’s post just to be there, because eventually people are gonna know it’s not real. But I’ll scroll through and I’ll comment; I take interest in what other people are doing. I see what’s going on in their life, and that helps me too to know who may need my assistance. I do just make it a habit every day to scroll through, take a few minutes, see what people are doing… Whatever is at the top of my newsfeed. And birthdays, of course. I always reach out on birthdays.

Aside from that personal page, I do have the business page that we’re supposed to have, and I do do advertisements and target marketing through that page. One of the things that I haven’t really quite figured out yet — I get the engagements, I get the likes, I get all that stuff off the target marketing; every now and then I’ll get a direct message that is responding to it, but on that target marketing I haven’t really figured out how to convert those people or grab them… So I add them as friends. [laughs] I just add them to my personal page, because I have such a better conversion rate of converting people through that.

Joe Fairless: When you reach out to people on their birthdays, what do you say?

Trish Williams: Oh, just “Happy birthday!” If there’s something I know special about them, or what’s going on in their world, I mention it. It’s just whatever…

Joe Fairless: Alright, so you don’t have a certain approach you take, other than just say “Happy birthday!” and perhaps maybe something else… Okay, cool.

Trish Williams: Just the regular, yeah.

Joe Fairless: Switching gears, you’re working with investors… The majority of your business is people who are buying a house to live in, so not investors, but you do work with some investors, and with those experiences with those investors, what are you working on acquiring for them that meets their goals?

Trish Williams: Well, right now the way that our market has been – I don’t know if you’re familiar with what’s going on in Vegas, but we’ve had a lot of big announcements over this year, so our market’s been doing very good and prices have been on the rise. They announced professional teams coming, we’ve got the Raiders coming, and professional hockey teams… A lot of great things happening in Vegas right now that’s boosting our economy and boosting our housing market.

Right now prices are a little bit higher than they have been over the past couple of years, so the investors that I’ve worked with that are looking to purchase homes right now, the days of buying homes super low and flipping them – there’s still a few of those out there, but they’re by far not as many. The shortsales are starting to go away, even the foreclosures are getting less and less… So there’s not a whole lot of opportunity there for that anymore, so I’ve been working with a couple people that are buying rentals; they’re buying homes to basically have as a rental property or whatever for just the next couple years, because the Raiders Stadium is supposed to be coming in three years, and of course none of us have a crystal ball, we don’t know for sure what’s gonna happen, but we do believe that there’s going to be quite a bit more increase between now and the next three years.

So they’re buying these properties as rental properties where they’re not getting a huge return on investment right now… They’re just kind of breaking even, coming out a little bit on top, but in the future, the point is to sell them in the next couple years for a lot higher than they purchased them for.

Joe Fairless: Okay. Do you know if they’re making any money in that holding period?

Trish Williams: Yes, they are. On average they’re making about — probably just coming on top of that $150 or $200 a month. Not a lot, but it’s enough.

Joe Fairless: Okay, and what’s the price point?

Trish Williams: The most recent ones I did, both of them are around $200,000, and they’re both in areas where there should be increase as the market starts to inflate. They’re good property altogether.

Joe Fairless: What leads you to believe that the areas that these homes are in should increase?

Trish Williams: They’re close by where the stadium is going to be built, so that should naturally just bring people around the area. The community is decent, it’s not ran down, or an older community… It’s still a place where somebody would wanna live – close by schools, close by shopping; all the great location things that everybody talks about.

One of them is a three-bedroom, one of them is a four-bedroom. It’s homes that can hold a family.

Joe Fairless: Now, one question I always ask, and this is based on your experience working with these investors, and then also coming out of the gate incredibly fast with the ten million dollars in two short years, for the Best Ever listeners who either want to create a referral-based business where they’re getting organic leads, or are looking to invest in a market somewhere in Las Vegas, what is your best advice ever for them?

Trish Williams: Well, creating a referral-based business, basically use – and it doesn’t have to be Facebook – any type of social media where people… Especially people this day and age – they’re always on it; all ages, too. What you’re trying to get across to people, instead of telling them, instead of marketing to them with fliers, with all this different stuff that’s marketing, you can create that whole persona through social media, and it’s very easy to do. That’s one of the hardest things for people that are starting out in real estate – it’s “How do people know that I’m good and I’m gonna take care of them? How do I let anybody know that?”, well that’s a great way to let people know. To me it’s simple; it’s the simplest way that you can get in. The best type of leads is direct referrals.

As far as investing in Vegas, we’re definitely doing pretty well in our market right now… I don’t know what to say. You’re looking to actually invest in something that you wanna resell… To purchase, rehab and resell; you’re going to have to look for shortsales, highly distressed properties… Very often it’s going to be cash-only purchase where there’s going to be some things wrong with the home, and that’s the way that you’re going to get a good return on it; you’re not going to get something that’s even partially move-in ready, because buyers are buying those even. They’re buying homes that are cosmetically destroyed, as long as they can get financing on them. Those homes are still selling right now like hot cakes. So if you really wanna get some return on your investment, you’ll probably have to go with something that’s not able to be financed at this point.

Joe Fairless: Going back to the referral-based business and your focus on Facebook – do you put your attention towards other social media platforms, or you’re pretty much exclusively focused on one?

Trish Williams: I’m exclusively focused on Facebook, and it’s probably because I don’t know any other ones that well… Facebook’s very easy for me and that’s why I do it. I have plans on talking with people to walk me through the other platforms. I have an associate that I’ve spoken with recently – he does a lot of business through Snapchat, and I can’t even imagine how that would work, but I’m willing to give it a shot.

Joe Fairless: Neither one of us can imagine how they get business through Snapchat…

Trish Williams: I know…! Like, there’s a way…?

Joe Fairless: I’m not even sure I wanna know, quite frankly… [laughter] Alright, are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Trish Williams: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:16:35].04] to [00:17:26].18]

Joe Fairless: Trish, what’s the best ever book you’ve read?

Trish Williams: Okay, so best ever book – are you talking real estate or non-real estate?

Joe Fairless: Real estate.

Trish Williams: Okay. Real estate – Pat Hiban’s “6 Steps to 7 Figures.”

Joe Fairless: Okay. Best Ever listeners, you can google “Pat Hiban Joe Fairless”, I interviewed Pat on the show and you can hear his interview. What is the best ever transaction you’ve done?

Trish Williams: Best ever transaction I would say was a new construction home… It was when I first started out, I really didn’t know much about the business whatsoever, but I heard that you can go in with new builders and negotiate, so… I actually hit them really hard on a bunch of things, and now down the line I’m amazed how much I was able to get from them… I didn’t know any better, I just tried to get everything I can. [unintelligible [00:18:34].06] added on for the fire, but I also got like a third-car car garage added, the extra bedroom downstairs… It was like over $30,000 of upgrades that were added on for nothing. So I don’t know if it was the time of the year or whatever, but they left the office a few times; I wouldn’t budge. I was just really proud of that; just starting out, coming out the door, I thought I did a  great job on that one.

Joe Fairless: No kidding. Do they still talk to you today?

Trish Williams: Yes, actually, believe me, they do. Every single time they have a new community, he always calls me and invites me out. In the end they really liked me.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

Trish Williams: Overpricing listings. Just kind of going with the sellers when the sellers don’t really wanna budge on price and kind of giving in on that – I’ve noticed that I really have to stand firm on the prices, because an overpriced listing doesn’t do anybody any good. It doesn’t do me any good when the home’s not moving, and I’m trying to explain to the seller that the home is not selling because of this; pricing it right will get you more money. I didn’t really protect myself on that in the beginning, and it hurt me. I mean, of course, I spend a lot of money on marketing upfront, so it was a loss for me in the end… But that’s something that I’ve learned the hard way; it doesn’t benefit anybody.

Joe Fairless: What’s the Best Ever way you like to give back?

Trish Williams: I’m a Christian, I go to church. I [unintelligible [00:19:57].13] 10% to the church. Every summer the church has summer camps where they send the youth to camp for a week and they do all kinds of zip-lining and all kinds of fun stuff. It’s a great week that they spend away in Prescott, and that actually is what brought me into church. I hadn’t gone and wasn’t really a believer or a follower or anything, and when my daughter was little, she really wanted to go to this camp, and I was really against it, and then they offered to sponsor her, and I didn’t understand why they were doing this… Overall, it made me start going because I wanted to know why they wanted her to go to camp so bad, so I had to go anyways. Anyways, that brought me into church and it means so much to me, so every summer when it’s time for church camp, it’s a big deal to me to sponsor as many kids as I can. So I take 10% of everything I earn during that time of season when it’s camp season, and it goes all towards sponsorship. Last year I sponsored about 30 kids to go to summer camp.

Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?

Trish Williams: My website is www.trishsellslv.com. My phone number – 702-308-2878, and I have an e-mail address, trishwilliams@kw.com.

Joe Fairless: You didn’t even mention Facebook.

Trish Williams: [laughs] Yes, I’m on Facebook! My Facebook page is called Your Realtor Trish Williams, Keller Williams, the marketplace one.

Joe Fairless: Okay, great… Yeah, I was waiting for the Facebook mention, and I was like “Wait a second, where is it?” Well, Trish, thanks for being on the show. Thanks for talking about how you get 90% of your business from referrals and your approach for doing so, which is using Facebook as a form of gaining referrals, and it’s not a commercial, if we were to become friends with you, it’s simply what you’ve got going on… And your exclusive focus on Facebook as a platform, versus fragmenting it out across many platforms, not being good at any of them, or being average at all of them… But instead, you’re really good and doing really well within one platform; I think there are a couple lessons there.

Then just your overall approach – you meet someone, “Hey, what’s your name? I’ll add you on Facebook and we’ll stay in touch. Great.” It’s just the platform that you’ve used to, as you said, build credibility with people first before you sit down with them… Because I’ve seen that in my business, and I’m sure every Best Ever listener has seen that as well – it’s a completely different conversation when someone knows you prior to sitting down or jumping on a call with them, compared to you two being relatively strangers to each other, and then having to build up from nothing. It’s just a completely different conversation, and it’s so much smoother when you two know a little bit more about each other… So thanks for being on the show, Trish, thanks for sharing that insight. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Trish Williams: Thank you for having me, Joe. It was great talking to you, and have a great week!

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Kurt Busch and Joe Fairless

JF1192: How A NASCAR Champion Stays One Step Ahead Of Everyone Else On And Off The Track with Kurt Busch

On the track, Kurt is a champion, he’s always calculating many different variables and factors to beat his competitors. Off the track, he applies the same mindset and work ethic. Kurt gives us a very specific example of a small variable on the race track that most drivers may not factor into their driving, that allowed him to break the speed record at Texas Motor Speedway. This kind of thinking is what separates the extraordinary apart from the ordinary. If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!


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Kurt Busch Background:

-27-time race winner in NASCAR’s Sprint Cup Series, taking 19 pole positions

-Currently drives the No. 41 Ford Fusion for Stewart-Haas

-Raced for the most prominent team owners, manufacturers and leading teams, from Jack Roush at Roush Racing to Roger Penske and the Penske organization

-2014 in an Indycar at the 98th running of the Indy500, was rookie contender at Andretti Autosports, finish as top rookie in 6th

-Winner of Daytona 500 in 2017

-Self made millionaire by developing his racing brand

-Say hi to him at http://www.kurtbusch.com/

-Based in Las Vegas, Nevada


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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.

With us today, Kurt Busch. How are you doing, Kurt?

Kurt Busch: I’m doing great, man. It’s good to talk to you.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, my pleasure. Holy cow, looking forward to diving in. A little bit about Kurt, in case you’re living under a rock… Kurt is a 27-time winner in NASCAR’s Sprint Series Cup. He is the winner of the Daytona 500, and he won that in 2017, and probably most relevant to you, Best Ever listeners, he is a self-made millionaire by developing his racing brand. Based in Las Vegas, Nevada…

With that being said, Kurt, what is it like driving 200 miles an hour?

Kurt Busch: Oh, that’s my favorite part of my job. The Friday afternoons we go out there for the first practice session, and when you hit the track and go 200 and going down into that corner, that’s that exhilaration, that’s that speed, that’s that feel in the body… You can’t replicate that anywhere else, so it’s great to be teamed up with a top tier team in NASCAR, with Stewart-Haas Racing, to have Ford as my primary sponsor with the manufacture side of it… That’s the best feeling – to go 200 miles an hour into the corner, and it’s that cool experience as well that I get to talk to the kids about, and families, about how it is to be a NASCAR driver.

Joe Fairless: What do you focus on when you’re driving that speed?

Kurt Busch: The focus is the handling of the car, all four tires as far as how it grabs the race track, and you are one with the car to feel the handling of the car, and then you have the aerodynamics, and then you get into the harmonics and the field of the engine, and then once you get into the race itself, now you’re worried about air pressure, fuel mileage… There’s so many different things that you get to juggle, and really, there’s no comparison to being in that race for the 500 miles… So it’s the best feeling in the world; you go 200, and you’ve got all these responsibilities.

Joe Fairless: How do you focus on winning when you’ve got these other variables that are all important, it sounds like, that you’ve got to pay attention to? How do you focus on actually being number one?

Kurt Busch: Well, that’s my job. You have to be in the zone to know all the different categories of the race strategy, the different changing conditions out on the race track, and ultimately putting yourself in position for the win… And that’s done with preparation, that’s done with teamwork. It’s the experience level that I have, but also it’s the team and the people that I have surrounded myself with, because you can’t do it alone. There’s no single individual that’s gonna bring the win, it’s everybody.

When you’re in that zone and it’s towards the end of the race, and you’ve put yourself in that position, that’s my time, that’s my job – to execute and be making those decisions that are ahead of the other guys, and to make sure that you’re that one step ahead, knowing that you’ve got your eyes on victory lane, but it’s protecting it to keep it away from others.

Joe Fairless: For a listener who might not be as familiar with the intricacies of racing, what is an example of a shift or a decision you made towards the end where you made it to victory lane, and it was a result of that decision?

Kurt Busch: Most recently – I can give you a quick example… We’ve set a track record at Texas Motor  Speedway for the fastest qualifying time on a mile and a half track.

Joe Fairless: I saw that. Congrats!

Kurt Busch: It was on average over 200 miles an hour, average. It was cool, because there were a couple kids that were standing there [unintelligible [00:05:53].17] that were family members of one of the crew guys, and I kind of gave them that wink; I said, “You know, we’re gonna go over 200 miles an hour today”, and they’re like “Whoah!”, they were all just in this moment of — he just acknowledge us. And then I was like “Guys, here’s what I’ve gotta do”, and to answer your question, it was to find that one moment and that feel – literally, I’m going full throttle into turn three, and I felt like the first few corners were perfect, and I’m knowing, I’m digesting this moment of “I’ve got this perfect lap going…”

But here was my plan – I’m in the sunshine in turn three, and you’re going full throttle and the car is just starting to drift away, it’s starting to slide up, but I knew that in turn four the shade, the grandstands were blocking the sun, and therefore I was going to find grip out of the turn four area to be able to keep it full throttle and not wash [unintelligible [00:06:46].20] and lose speed. So I was actually using weather, using the sun angle, using the shade for the grip level to complete the lap, and that’s something that maybe not a lot of drivers would gamble with, or been able to have predicted, or to be able to have that in their toolbox when it comes to finding that last bit of success.

Joe Fairless: Wow, that’s fascinating. So if the sun is blocked, then sometimes you can get more grip with the tires on the track?

Kurt Busch: Yeah, and I don’t wanna give too many secrets out there, but the drivers know that the shade and the conditions when you have cooler [unintelligible [00:07:20].23] conditions you’re gonna gain more grip… But now it’s like, man, when you’re going there and you’re sliding, you’re like “Oh no, I have to lift, I’m gonna wreck…” – no, you’ve gotta trust that the grip [unintelligible [00:07:31].01] You’ve just gotta trust that it’s gonna happen.

Joe Fairless: On that “trust it’s gonna happen” based on previous experiences and just studying, how have you applied that towards business?

Kurt Busch: Well, there’s different patterns… There’s the constant desire to succeed, and quite simply, if there’s a race to win, if there’s a check out there to go and cash, you wanna do your best job to go and get it. But as far as the business side and succeeding, I was told at an early age “If you wanna invest in something, you invest into yourself.” You go after things that you believe will better your own self, and you make decisions around that instead of trying to rely on others, because if you’re not investing in yourself, who’s going to do that?

Joe Fairless: What are some ways that you invest in yourself?

Kurt Busch: It’s a workout regimen, it’s a nutrition regimen, it’s that desire to achieve success and to go after every day with that open mind of “What can happen today? What can I achieve? What do I need to accomplish?” and it’s just that constant “Everything’s good, but I have to go and achieve it”, and I have to apply that value of that I learned from my father each and every day. Success doesn’t take a day off, let’s just go that way.

Joe Fairless: As far as the work ethic, walk us through a typical day – and ‘typical’ is always a tricky word, because there might not be a typical day, but I’d love to learn more about the work you put in on a daily basis, if you can describe that in some way…

Kurt Busch: Each day is different. There is the Friday, Saturday, Sunday around race weekend, and that’s a compartmentalized effort on what has to happen there. Travel days – those are different, on where we have to go for our next race… And then days off from the NASCAR circuit are days applied to my personal business at Kurt Busch Inc. Then it’s to the workout regimen with the different trainers that I have here in North Carolina. I have trainers down in Florida where my wife plays polo, and she has her trainers that we work with and we keep it moving around and shaking because you don’t wanna get stagnant in your workouts.

It’s honestly just a nice schedule to where my assistant Christie knows that this has to be done here, and she helps me get to there… And it could just be a simple one moment throughout the day where you know that there’s that difference maker, and you apply it. Each and every day. There’s not anything specific, there’s not a typical day, but you have to, again, surround yourself with people that are successful, and then they help me do my job, and that is to stay focused on what I’ve gotta do to help them be successful. It’s creating that aura and that element of “when you have success around you, you wanna keep that going, and you find good people to do that.”

Joe Fairless: Having people around you who are successful, how do you approach that? Basically, how do you pick your peer group?

Kurt Busch: That is a good question, I like that. And to answer that, you find trustworthy people. You find people that have those same common goals, and the work ethic, as well. I think the work ethic is the key element in finding successful people. It’s the guys that show up a half hour early, it’s the ones that stay an hour late… It isn’t necessarily just a timed clock type of situation. Those I think are the people that make a big difference in my life, because we’re always juggling things here and there and everywhere.

It’s this point when you call somebody at [5:01] and they’ve already checked out, you know?

Joe Fairless: It’s ridiculous. That’s not how the world works… Or shouldn’t be; it is, but it shouldn’t be, right?

Kurt Busch: Yeah, that’s that small difference maker, I think.

Joe Fairless: You mentioned Kurt Busch Inc – that’s your company, correct?

Kurt Busch: Yes, sir.

Joe Fairless: How do you make money with that company?

Kurt Busch: For me, we’ve got different sectors, categories, whether it’s the transportation side of things, whether it’s the aviation side… The biggest thing here at Kurt Busch Inc is we’re able to help people with a private car collection. It’s something we don’t advertise a lot, because we wanna give that white glove service to our clients… And it’s to take people’s vehicles, whether they buy them at an auto auction like [unintelligible [00:11:57].09], whether it’s word of mouth… There’s different athletes and clients that we have that have spread the word around on how we can help them with their vehicle, and it’s to provide that white glove service to take their car, and honestly just make sure that it’s at that top operating performance, and as well as safety items too, because when you buy a car at an auction, it’s not gonna be that perfect vehicle until it comes by our shop to make sure that it’s at that operating level.

Things that we’re trying to work on in the future is different developmental projects with an OEM partner. I work with Ford, and we wanna have an F150 type package, or a Mustang package… There’s gonna be different things that we do with the auto manufacturer, because frankly, we’re able to do so many different vehicles, and they can do tens of thousands of vehicles. So that’s the next step for our company.

Joe Fairless: And the acronym OEM stands for…?

Kurt Busch: With the OEM – it’s the Original Equipment Manufacturer.

Joe Fairless: Okay, got it.

Kurt Busch: That’s Ford, Dodge, Chevrolet, Toyota… An OEM partner, original equipment manufacturer, that’s when you’re really tying it into the acronym of that manufacturer in the car world, that’s when you’re trying to work with the different products that those guys provide.

Joe Fairless: How do you decide where you spend your time from a business standpoint? Because you’ve got the racing thing, and then you’ve got your company — I know there’s overlap, but you do have separate arms of that that you just described… So how do you decide where to put your focus?

Kurt Busch: Honestly, it comes from my heart, but I know that in my wallet or on the business sense of it there’s a percentage of time that needs to be spent in certain categories that are more beneficial than others. But ultimately, when you’re working and one thing bridges to the next and you find that reason for the time that you have to spend in certain categories… I mean, it could even be a golf outing that is planned where you bring in certain business partners, share that time together, and then you’re at a cocktail hour and you’re looking at what’s gonna happen to the next bit of time, the next bit of contracts, and… It’s about the people, again. The people that you’re spending your time with – it’s like, okay, you’re going here, you’re going there, you make things happen, and at the end of the day it’s because you believe in your heart that you’re making the right decisions.

So again, there’s not one single day or a typical moment that you follow; it’s that pattern that’s all around that just happens in the NASCAR world and in my business world.

Joe Fairless: You’re a self-made millionaire, and when some listeners hear that, I imagine they think “I want in on that. I wanna be a self-made millionaire, too.” What is your advice for them for how to go about doing that?

Kurt Busch: I would say persistence is how I’ve ended up in the spot that I’m in… I’m very confident in what I’ve done and in the decisions that I’ve made, but ultimately it came through the persistence side of you meet this person, and you see the category that that can lead you to. In racing there’s no step ladder that you have to just follow… Let’s just take for example in basketball. Kids take up basketball, they’re with their buddies, they’re playing, next thing you know they’re in high school ball; if you’re in high school ball, you’re trying to get to college… College ball, you wanna get to the NBA.

In racing it’s not necessarily “This step ladder is gonna take you to that, or it’s gonna take you to this”, but what I did early on in my career, it was to take the field of racing, that business side of it, and blend those two together. And the opportunities came when I knew that — we were struggling in college, literally… The books were on the backseat of my car as I’m driving to the next race. [unintelligible [00:15:57].24] was like “Man, you’ve gotta study more… This racing thing is taking over your life too much, and you’ve gotta give that up, you’ve gotta get back to the books, you’ve gotta focus.” That even happened at one of my first jobs. People were telling me “Man, this racing thing and the way that you’re so focused on it – it’s taking away from your focus at work and your work ethic.” But when those things start to take over, when people are telling you that, that’s when I knew that I had the desire that was so laser-focused on the racing side of it… That that’s really what is that persistence of trying to race and trying to do this and meet the next person and move here and shake there, and it told me that that’s what I was the best at. That’s that persistence… When people are telling you to do this, do that, and yet you know what you’re focused in on – that’s my advice; that is the next level of… When it takes over your life, that’s when you know you’ve gotta go that route.

Joe Fairless: I love that. Your first job – what was it?

Kurt Busch: My first job – my dad was like “Hey, what do you need to live in life? What’s the most important thing?” I’m like, “Um, money?” He goes “No, no, no… What’s the most important, let’s just say, thing here at the house?” and I’m like “Dad, what are you getting at? I don’t know… Like, it’s nice that the lights come on…”

Joe Fairless: Yeah, I have no clue what he’s getting at…

Kurt Busch: Electricity… What’s the most important thing? Water… I’m like “Okay… Like, that is the bare essential, dad, we need to all live with”, and he goes “Yeah, you should be a plumber.” I’ve got a guy that’s gonna help you get your first job, you’re gonna be a plumber. I’m like, “Oh, I see what he is getting at…” [laughter] That was my first job – I was a plumber.

Joe Fairless: Wow… From plumbing to racing full-time, or was there some stops in between?

Kurt Busch: The plumbing thing was honestly just to get some cash and to learn how to take orders, take directions, to be an employee… But man, it was racing, racing, racing all the time.

Joe Fairless: Got it. So it was the plumbing and then eventually it was all racing; there wasn’t another – maybe electrician, or something else in between like that.

Kurt Busch: No, it really was the business side of racing. You’re in sales, you’re in technology, you’re in management… There’s so many different categories that as a young racer I was not fully comprehending everything around me, but I was learning all those different traits, and I think that’s what’s helped me digest all the different categories to be successful and to be able to say that I’m a self-made millionaire, so to speak.

Joe Fairless: It truly is fascinating, because you just said something I wasn’t consciously aware of… The technology part of your business as an entrepreneur is very prevalent in your industry, whereas when I talk to former NFL players, NBA players – it’s a ball; there’s no technology involved there. And if they are venturing outside of NBA or NFL, but still within their sport, then there’s not a technology component unless they do something online or something like that… But with you, it’s completely integrated throughout. So you do have to have another skillset that in my opinion isn’t as typical for an athlete that needs to have — so it’s sales, technology and management. Which area would you say was your weakest starting out, and what was a mistake that you’ve made within that category?

Kurt Busch: Yeah, in racing you start out because you’re at that elementary level, you have a tape measure. Nowadays you have your laptop with simulation models and you’re plugging in algorithms and equations to arrive at the best setup as far as what you’re gonna apply to the car. That’s a quick timeline, of how you have to adapt. It simply keeps continuing to evolve, and I think that’s what everybody sees in their lives as well – if you don’t evolve, then you’re gonna get left behind.

To answer your question, I think I’m the weakest in the people management area. I think that with the job and the world and the lifestyle that I live and what’s required of me, being here, being there, taking care of that project, going 200 miles an hour, this, that – it’s a matter of making sure that I create that formal management style and to be able to have that human resources type attitude, that’s something that’s difficult because of the moving and the shaking that always happens around the business that I’m in. So I would say the management side is my weakest area.

Joe Fairless: Is there something where that not being your strongest has burned you in the past?

Kurt Busch: It might have not burned me, but it might have stunted some of the growth, and the ability to capitalize on other categories, and being able to take a foundation that’s sitting there, and the success from the racing and the different wins, “How do we go bigger? How do we make it greater? How do you become that top A+ level?” I think that that’s where I’ve had great success, I’m proud of what I’ve done, I wouldn’t change anything. Just the bumps in the road that everybody goes through… But [unintelligible [00:21:16].18] in that top A+ level, that’s still what I’m trying to achieve and to do, and that might have been some of the categories where there wasn’t a full fulfillment.

Joe Fairless: And what do you do to optimize that part of the process, to then make it more of a strength on the level of the sales and technology part?

Kurt Busch: I think, again, it gets back to the people that you surround yourself with, and there’s only literally 24 hours in the day, there’s only so much that can be done, and you have to put people in certain categories, places, and let them strive and make you better, and bring more out within you as you’re putting them into position for success.

Joe Fairless: I ask this question to all guests, and this is knowing that the audience, people listening, the Best Ever listeners – they’re primarily real estate investors, but we’re all entrepreneurs. As real estate investors we’re an entrepreneur. As a winner of the Daytona 500, you’re also an entrepreneur with your business, so here’s the question… What is your best advice ever for real estate investors and entrepreneurs?

Kurt Busch: You know, that’s the age-old question on when you have real estate, where you have the ability to make money in real estate, or you’re looking to go into that sector, or if you’re a top person in real estate, a business developer, whether it’s commercial, residential – the way that I have seen most success happen is you have all the different layers taken care of. So if you’re a business, you use a different business or an LLC to buy the lot; that way you own the piece of real estate. Then you have a different business that creates the building, the structure itself, to be able to make the money. That way you don’t have all your eggs in one basket.

Now that you’ve got that piece of real estate, you’ve got the business going. Then once you’ve got the business going, now you’re looking at the next piece of real estate and how to flip and grow and go from there, but you’re in all the different categories. You have it at the land, and you have it on the business side.

Joe Fairless: We asked the Best Ever listeners if they had any questions for you, and we’ve got a bunch of them, but I’ve narrowed it down to just a handful, hand-picked, so we’re gonna go into the Lightning Round. Your questions don’t have to be lightning quick, but I just called it the Lightning Round just because it sounds cool. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Kurt Busch: Oh yeah, bring it.

Joe Fairless: Alright, cool. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:23:46].24] to [00:24:42].09]

Joe Fairless: Alright, Kurt, here we go. Let’s see… This one is from Stan in Portland, Oregon – “Does being one of the best drivers in the world affect how you react when in traffic with us normal folk?”

Kurt Busch: [laughs] Thank you for the compliment, but in all honesty, my wife says I drive like a grandpa. [laughter] [unintelligible [00:25:03].17] on the roadway that I’m a good driver, but the key on the regular roadways – look ahead; be able to predict when that light’s gonna turn red, and that way you’re already in position for success.

Joe Fairless: Is that applicable to racing at your level, too?

Kurt Busch: It’s one of the first things that my dad taught me, was to look ahead, be able to predict what’s gonna happen, know to keep your momentum up, that way you’re not just hard on the breaks to stop for that red light that’s coming up… That way you go “Oh, look, it’s gonna turn green now”, and be able to accelerate through, and you’ve now saved yourself some fuel mileage.

Joe Fairless: I’m going to the racing part… When you’re racing and you’re just starting out, and the advice from your dad is look ahead, and that will help you predict what will happen – when you’re just starting out, how do you have the experience to predict what will happen while you’re looking ahead?

Kurt Busch: It is difficult. You have to find those small different difference makers, and it takes mistakes to be able to realize that. It could be just as simple as “Oh man, I really thought that that light was gonna turn green, and then the next thing you know it didn’t”, and boom, you’re right on top of that guy in front of you.

The key bit of advice that my dad taught me, or that could be applicable to this question and this situation is you can’t stare at your front bumper when you’re driving; you have to look further out, you have to digest things in your peripheral vision, which is to be able to absorb your surroundings and make better decisions that way. If you’re too laser-focused on one issue, you’re not seeing what’s around you.

Joe Fairless: Let’s see… This is kind of a long one; this is Jason in Chicago. He says — maybe your Wikipedia page says this, or your bio… He says “Your bio says ‘Revered as a driver that is highly technical and demands the best from his team, Kurt is known for raising the bar for everyone around him, from mechanics to [unintelligible [00:27:03].03] partners in NASCAR and in the industry as a whole.’ The question is what is an example of this?”

Kurt Busch: Well, it’s being able to go to that next level. If you get complacent, you’re only gonna get those complacent results. So within that definition and what he’s asking, is that I strive to bring out the best in the people around me, and when you do that with people, they’re gonna bring out the best in you. So if you find results that aren’t the results that you want, it’s a matter of going after the next step and trying to help that person, or have that person help you find that next best result, and it’s done through communication, it’s done through the ability to reach out and connect with somebody and bring that next level out of them.

Joe Fairless: Christina in San Jose – “What are you most proud of?”

Kurt Busch: What am I most proud of? I think it’s the fact that life around me and the people that are around me are my favorite things. It’s to be able to wake up and go “You know, I have a nice house, nice car…”, but it’s the people that I know that are on my favorites list in my phone, and the chance to go to lunch with somebody or to go to dinner and to spend that time, or to be able to go on a ski vacation with somebody, and those are those close family members or friends – those are the things that I’m the most proud of.

Joe Fairless: And this is Chris in Boston – “What are your 5-10 year goals?”

Kurt Busch: To finish up strong in my NASCAR career is the number one goal. To start a family with my wife Ashley, to have children, and to be able to show those experience and to share those experiences with my young ones and to have the business side of things where the runway is extended beyond NASCAR racing, and to do things with the manufacturers, with my different sponsors (Monster Energy, we’re always having fun) and just being able to use the experience and the PhD that I’ve experienced in the NASCAR business world, and to do it outside of that.

Joe Fairless: What’s the best ever way you like to give back?

Kurt Busch: Time with the military, time with those who have fought for our freedoms, all the different branches of the military – air force, army, marines, the navy… All the different branches of people that have provided for our freedom – it’s so easy for me to just go by and say thanks to them, whether it’s at our coffee shop here at Moose Lodge, or if it’s at the race track… When we have all the different top dignitaries that have come to enjoy the NASCAR experience, I just always go by to say thanks and to appreciate the sacrifices that they make.

Joe Fairless: And lastly, what’s the best place the Best Ever listeners can learn more about what you’ve got going on?

Kurt Busch: The best place? Honestly, it’s the race track… To go and experience NASCAR, that’s the best experience that you can get; you get the smell, you get the taste and the feel and the vibrations and the speed and the energy at the race tracks.

Joe Fairless: What does it smell like?

Kurt Busch: You know what, it smells like gas burning, it smells like tires burning, you smell that rubber, and then you’ve got, of course, the midway action, with [unintelligible [00:30:21].11] and the whole hot dogs cooking… That’s the best atmosphere that there is. Come at the race track live.

Joe Fairless: I haven’t had lunch yet and I’m starving now, after that description from you. Well, Kurt, thank you for being on the show. This truly was a conversation about persistence, number one; the story with how your dad suddenly got around to you starting out as a plumber, and then your persistence in that job as you evolve in your career – you were really focused on the racing.
I love the quote that you said when people were telling you that you were spending a little bit too much time on racing – well, that was your thing, and that’s really when as any entrepreneur, if we’re spending a lot of time on something, then that should be an indicator of us wanting to continue to do it, because you get a reward in public for what you do in private… That’s something that Tony Robbins says, and it certainly applies here.

And also people – this is a story about people, how you surround yourself with people, as you mentioned, who you trust based on experience and research.

Then lastly I’d say anticipation. I love the story about coming around that corner, blocking the sun, there’s shade, and you can get more grip on your tires, and at 200 miles an hour – you can still drive that in confidence, versus thinking that you need to slow down a little bit. So anticipating it based on the trust and the research.

Thanks for being on the show, Kurt. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Kurt Busch: Thank you, I appreciate it again. A subliminal message that I didn’t even know that I was portraying when I was young (I put it on my resume), that objective in life to be in the top one percentile of whatever racing category I was gonna get into. That works in every category.

Joe Fairless: I love that. Thanks a lot, Kurt.

Kurt Busch: You got it. Thanks!

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JF970: How Options We are Given in Life Serve Us to Fight Fear

He’s done every deal in the book and fought adversity in the market. Now he helps others get over their fear of making real estate decisions.

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Mark Collard Real Estate Background:

– Founder & CEO of the Outback, a seminar/empowerment company for real estate investors
– Travels and speaks internationally on real estate
– He hosts events all over the US for real estate professionals and real estate investors
– His mission is to fundamentally change thinking in real estate from fear-based to empowered
– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada
– Say hi to him at http://www.coachcollard.com/
– Best Ever Book: Outwitting the Devil

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Mark Collard and Joe Fairless


Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast. We only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any fluff.

With us today, Mark Collard. How are you doing, Mark?

Mark Collard: Hey, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

Joe Fairless: My pleasure, nice to have you on the show. A little bit about Mark… He is the founder and CEO of the Outback, which is a seminar/empowerment company for real estate investors. He is a full-time real estate investor, as well as he does coaching. His mission is to fundamentally change thinking in real estate from fear-based to being empowered. You can say hi to him at his website, CoachCollard.com. Based in Las Vegas, Nevada… With that being said, Mark, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?

Mark Collard: In 1999 I got started in real estate, but I actually started as a mortgage loan officer. I spent about a year really learning the mortgage business, and it kind of propelled me into things. I had done a little bit of study back in the day on [unintelligible [00:03:08].17] no money down program, and what I realized pretty quickly was that my finance knowledge, understanding traditional finance kind of gave me X-ray vision (that’s what I called it) into a transaction, into people’s contexts and their situations, and I realized my finance knowledge was a competitive edge and it helped me put deals together.

I started buying real estate, I started with subject to’s and lease options, bailed a few people out of foreclosure, and it just started going from there. I’d done everything wide, I guess you could say, on the highway of real estate, from note buying to commercial discounts, short sales, foreclosures, subject to’s, lease options… That’s just my thing nowadays, that’s what I do.

Early on, I realized that a lot of people deal with fear that freezes them up, or they get in the middle of a transaction and they don’t know anything, so they just go on to this story in their head, and it’s fear-based. You and I both know that fear doesn’t serve anybody, so part of what I’ve done is put the Outback together… The Outback is a mindset decision to seek solutions at all costs, and you don’t quit; you just continue to look and consider what options are there. Consider everything, but you won’t do anything… So I’ll consider unreasonable options and I’ll entertain those ideas, and in there I’m generally able to find a solution for somebody that helps me to put a creative real estate deal together. That’s the quick version.

Joe Fairless: I’m curious, when you were a mortgage officer and you saw that the finance knowledge gave you a competitive edge, what did you apply specifically, or what did you learn that gave you that edge?

Mark Collard: It was really understanding the trustee sell process. At the time I happened to be in Arizona… My little triangle, my place where I play now is Arizona, California and Nevada, and all of those locations have a [unintelligible [00:04:52].08] so it’s a non-judicial process, it’s a pre-defined statutory 90-day or a little more process in every day… Mastering that process or learning that process through the lending business and seeing people going to foreclosure – it allowed me to see through the transaction. Most homeowners, when they go delinquent, immediately are like “Oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? I need to call the bank and ask them what they can do or what I can do.”

Joe Fairless: Yep.

Mark Collard: And the bank’s only gonna tell you their process on how to prevent you from going delinquent or how to take your property back when you don’t pay it. What I realized is they’re just as misinformed as the homeowner is, and being in the mortgage business just allowed me to see through that, so I was able to put together solutions based in reality, rather than “Oh my god, I’m gonna lose my home!”, because as soon as a homeowner goes there, they lose their empowerment, and everything I do is about staying empowered; you’ve gotta continue to make decisions in the face of diversity, you can’t just go into fear. [unintelligible [00:05:46].13] authority over to the lenders.

Joe Fairless: Let’s talk about that… As an investor now, knowing what you know through the process of being a mortgage loan officer, how did you approach it with the homeowner and how did you provide a solution for them?

Mark Collard: Literally, my second transaction ever – a buddy of mine called me and said, “Hey, I’ve had my property listed for a year… It hasn’t sold, and I need to get rid of it. I can’t afford it anymore.” I said, “Well, rather than get rid of it, can I just take it over for you?” He said, “Sure. What does that look like?” I said, “Well, I’ll bring the paperwork over. You don’t have any equity, so just give it to me and I’ll figure it out.” And he says, “Well, I’m already delinquent, so my credit’s shut.”  I said, “Well, that’s in both of our favor, so I’ll figure it out from there.”

He owned  [unintelligible [00:06:29].05] on a first FHA loan, and he has a second with Green Tree. He didn’t know what to do, he thought he was stuck. He had it listed for 118k, which is the amount he owed to both lenders, for like a year. Relatively quickly, I was able to negotiate a second discount with Green Tree mortgage. I thought it was actually a short sale at the time, I actually didn’t know what I was doing; I just knew to go-go-go.

So they discounted it down $1,500, I purchased the —

Joe Fairless: Holy cow, I wanna pause right there… Green Tree lowered their second mortgage from 118k to $1,500?

Mark Collard: No, actually the Green Tree second was 17k, and the first with [unintelligible [00:07:13].29] was 101k.

Joe Fairless: Oh, I thought you said he had it listed for 218k, which is what he owed…

Mark Collard: 118k.

Joe Fairless: Oh, 118k! Okay, I misheard that. Alright, so they went from 17k and change to about $1,500?

Mark Collard: Correct. I actually made them an offer officially… I calculated my numbers and justified how I was gonna make my offer, and I made an $1,100 offer. They said no to it immediately, and I basically sat on my thumbs for three weeks, just saying, “Hey, I don’t really know what to do.” Three weeks later they just called me and sent over a fax and said, “Hey, we’ll take it.” So I basically effectively bought my own second mortgage, because now I owned the property; I bought the second mortgage for $1,500, but it had a lien for $1,700, so I just created an arbitrary $15,500 in equity. [unintelligible [00:08:00].14] it was just all the taste I needed, and I just went gangbusters.

I’ve done deals like that where we discounted debt 300k-400k, and freed up half a million dollars in equity.

Joe Fairless: Wow… So how do you go about reaching out to a lender? What do you do? Do you just call the 1-800 number and say “I’ve got a mortgage”, or what?

Mark Collard: Yeah, you literally start with that, but again, my mortgage background gives me context for everything… So depending on the circumstance, if I’m the homeowner or if I’ve already got the property subject to, I don’t do something like that unless I get the original homeowner to sign a bar’s authorization to give me access to enquire on their behalf.

I usually have our P’s and Q’s in order, so I’ll just call and say, “Hey, I’m calling about this property and this loan. I have a bar’s authorization I need to send you so that you’ll talk to me.” They’ll give me a fax number, I’ll fax it in… Anywhere from 24 hours to ten days, depending on how inefficient they are, I’ll get in contact with them again and we’ll start having a dialogue. A lot of times I’ll just throw a hook in the water, so to speak, and fish with no worm, so to speak, trying to find the right person… Sometimes it’s the asset manager with [unintelligible [00:09:07].18] sometimes it’s a higher up VP that I have to get to… It’s always different; every lender is different, every scenario is different, every circumstance is different. It’s really about just being diligent and imposing our will on them, and it takes time.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, I imagine it takes time just because there’s a lot of red tape with lenders and a lot of process, right?

Mark Collard: Lots of red tape. I think they’re the originators of red tape.

Joe Fairless: [laughs] Any tips? You just gave some great ones as far as “Be patient, know it’s a long process, get to the right people…” Any other tips before we change gears a little bit, as it relates to working with lenders and negotiating down the mortgages?

Mark Collard: Be willing to not take no for an answer and be willing to be somewhat unreasonable about your request. You have to approach them with a “I know more than you” or “I’m gonna do more than you” attitude. A lot of time we acquiesce to the person that answers the phone and their position and we buy into their lack of authority and the fact that they have to follow what I call “procedure number 9.”

I have a permanent script that’s built into me that says, “Hey, Mr./Mrs. Person That I’m Talking To, I totally appreciate your position and the fact that your corporate policy says XYZ, and procedure number 9 won’t allow you to do that, but in my world I’m actually in your position and I’m the owner of the business, so my procedure is bigger than yours, my corporate policy is bigger than yours, and we can do this one of two ways: I can run directly through you on the phone, it can be a very ugly and difficult conversation, or you can accommodate me and help me get to the right person, which is probably, starting off, your manager.”

I’m professional about it, but I’m very stern, and I can talk circles around most people that aren’t bank presidents… In some cases bank presidents, so I’m gonna get my way, it’s just gonna take time. So just be patient.

Joe Fairless: Now let’s talk about — how about the last deal you did, can you tell us about it?

Mark Collard: Actually, I’m working on one right now… It’s in process, it just hasn’t completely gone through, and I think that’s probably the highlight of everything.

Joe Fairless: Oh, really?

Mark Collard: Yeah, I’m working on a mobile home park right now, and the scenario is there’s an older gentleman that’s ready to retire; he’s got a mom-and-pop run (so to speak) mobile home park. I learned through reading and I went through a bootcamp on mobile home parks and that type of thing… They basically are mom-and-pop run and they’re very run down and always underperforming.

He shows a certain amount of money, he claims a certain amount of money, he’s got his gross expenses and his gross income, but his reality is different than what he shows on paper. So if that price is 300-400k more than it’s actually worth, that’s being nice… But recently I ran across a technique from a guy, just two weeks ago he was at an REI club here, and we like to attend the other ones to gain knowledge and network. He gave me  a creative finance technique I’d never seen or used before, and immediately I understood it… So I put that on the board with this gentleman last week. It’s been about two-and-a-half months since we last talked, and he’s entertaining the idea right now.

Joe Fairless: Really? That’s cool… Isn’t it nice to learn some stuff and then immediately implement it?

Mark Collard: Well, what’s really cool is I pride myself on my finance knowledge, my creative finance techniques and I have a lot of experience with it; I constantly challenge myself, but I didn’t know this event was gonna be like that. My buddy told me, he said, “Hey, this guy’s got something a little bit different, you might wanna check it out.” Sure enough, it blew my doors.

He’s got this technique — I think he labels it incorrectly… He calls it a “zero percent down creative finance.” I think “zero percent”, saying that to somebody, even a seller, it turns people off. But effectively, he’s willing to listen to them… He calls it an “avatar seller” – he has a certain type of seller with a certain motivation, and he says “If they’re at a price where they hadn’t sold in a while, their motivation is getting stronger and stronger”, and it’s not unreasonable; go ahead and give them their purchase price, go ahead and give them their unreasonable number. Pay 300-400k more.

Basically, here’s what the deal’s gonna be: offer them their price or even more, offer them no money down terms, take over their loan, but basically you’re gonna do a seller carry, and whatever you pay them on a monthly, it’s gonna be 100% applied to the equity or to the payoff of the loan. So he basically says, “Mister Seller, I will give you (I’m just gonna use arbitrary numbers) $7,500/month for 12 years.” If you calculate that out, that’s gonna work out to be 1.1 million, which is the asking price. “You’ll be completely paid off and out of the picture, and I’ll own the property free and clear.”

Basically, their motivation is like “Wow, this guy’s gonna pay me X every single month…” They don’t think about whether it’s gonna pay down the mortgage, they’re just saying “That works for me”, and it gives them their price that they wanted. Basically, I’m gonna own a property in 12 years if he says yes.

Joe Fairless: Okay, I see.

Mark Collard: Now, that’s [unintelligible [00:14:11].01] all the due diligence, but that’s the effective concept of it.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

Mark Collard: It’s a gentleman named Chris [unintelligible [00:14:20].10] He’s an attorney and a creative finance guy, and I’m very impressed with his program.

Joe Fairless: Thanks for giving him a shoutout; I don’t think I’ve interviewed him. Maybe I should interview him. I just wanna recap, though…

In this scenario, it’s a no-money-down seller finance scenario, where you pay them their asking price – if they’re being unreasonable, pay them their asking price; or even if they’re not, you still could use this, but this is particularly good for that. You give them, say $5,000 a month, times 12 months in the year, say, for ten years… And whatever that amount is, whatever that total is, that’s their overall purchase price that gets paid to them.

The money that you pay them, you said it goes to the principle payment of what you owe – is that correct?

Mark Collard: That’s correct. Starting month one, 100% paydown.

Joe Fairless: Say they want $500,000 for their property – then you could pay them $60,000… It would be eight years and three months. So a $500,000, for $5,000 a month… “I’ll give you $5,000 for every month for eight years and three months”, and then obviously, when we run our numbers, we have to conservatively project that it’s going to cash-flow above and beyond all the expenses, which are including this $5,000 right?

Mark Collard: Correct.

Joe Fairless: And the way we come up with the amount we can pay them a month is by identifying how much we can conservatively expect to receive for the property, and then maybe half it… Or we can make it 50 years, or whatever it is.

Mark Collard: Sure, he actually has a spreadsheet he uses, and everything… I didn’t go to his actual class, I was just in that 45-minute share he did. My mortgage knowledge allowed me to pick that up and get it, and I’ve got so much experience applying similar stuff that it just made sense to me. I don’t have to scrutinize it for hours and hours to know it works. I’ve talked to those sellers for years and years and years, I know they’re out there.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, that’s cool. How did the conversation go when you went back to the mobile home park person?

Mark Collard: It was exactly as Chris had said it would be… It was identical. The motivations were there, all his issues were there. He had a couple of other issues; he needs a little more money on the front side, and he explained to me why, and those were personal reasons for himself, so… That won’t be a deal breaker, it would just money in, and we have a smaller number to play with or less time to pay on it… But he didn’t blink at the idea of 150% paydown on the mortgage, and he was more focused on his needs, and “Hey, I just need a bigger chunk of cash upfront.” That’s kind of our negotiation point right now.

Joe Fairless: That’s a fun share, thanks for that.

Mark Collard: Yeah, you bet!

Joe Fairless: Alright, what’s your best real estate investing advice ever?

Mark Collard: Best real estate investing advice ever is – and I’ll say this to anybody, no matter how long they’ve been in the business – Robert Kiyosaki says that if you buy real estate for it to only go up in value, you’re a speculator, and I’ve stuck to that. So you do not have to buy real estate… You can buy real estate, and when you get to a place like me, you can [unintelligible [00:17:33].28] anything, but just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

You’ve gotta see your entrance, your acquisition strategy, and you’ve gotta be able to see money on the backside, either cash flow or through a discount. So you don’t have to buy real estate. Learn to say no. There’s several pieces of his advice in there.

Joe Fairless: Yeah, absolutely. And what is an example of a property that you said no to, if you can think of one?

Mark Collard: One of my favorites… Actually, my partner today – his name’s John Lee, he’s here in Vegas and he runs the Outback with me – when I was training him and kind of getting him into the Outback mode he brought a property to me, and one of the fundamentals that I practice is that we buy based on a particular MAO, and we don’t deviate the MAO. I’m sure you know what that is…

Joe Fairless: No, what’s MAO? I don’t know what that is.

Mark Collard: It’s a Maximum Allowable Offer. It’s a predefined [unintelligible [00:18:21].19] the ARV or the actual value of the property of what we think we can sell it for. So one of the things that I’ve learned, especially being here in Vegas, is that dollars and dollar signs and numbers make us intoxicated, but percentages never lie. I always translate my profit to a percentage, so the percentage doesn’t get me intoxicated; it’s not very sexy, it’s just like, “Hey, if I’m gonna make 13% return on investment in a couple months – cool.” If I keep that number a number, and it says “Hey, you’re gonna make $82,000”, I’m like “Wow, that’s a lot of money”, right?

Well, in this particular case, the $82,000 translated to a percentage that was way under our profit model, so I stopped in kind of mid-sentence, so to speak. And he says to me, “How does this not make sense?” I said, “Well, it makes sense from the standpoint of you’re looking at the dollar amount. Yes, $82,000 is a lot of money, but you just blew the model out of the water. Do we invest that way?” and he looks at me and almost gets in tears, and he was like “No, we don’t. You’re right, this is no deal”, so we said no.

He was already counting dollar signs in his head, but it was an exciting and permanent learning point.

Joe Fairless: That makes a lot of sense to me. The one question I have where I can see someone going and taking the opposite argument is if there is, let’s say, million dollars worth of profit, and it’s like maybe a 8% return… But then you could in theory get 16% return on a bunch of smaller deals, the ease of transaction of management of this one, albeit less return, and the risk, where you’re not having to do a lot — well, I guess it could be argued both ways, because all your eggs are in one basket, versus being spread out… But the point is you might be able to get the same amount of return or less return on only one deal, whereas you have to do a lot of other deals to get a faster return.

Mark Collard: Yeah, and I wouldn’t disagree with your logic in your statement, but the reality for me is that risk is relative to what you know; I learned that from Kiyosaki, as well. For me, it’s about what you have at risk. If I have to put a lot at risk to get that 8%, it’s not worth it because that’s beyond my model.

I know a lot of people can justify “Hey, for $100,000 deals maybe you say no, but that’s a big chunk of money”… No, everything for me works the same, and I learned that in the mortgage business. If a lender loans 80% LTV and they want 20% down, there’s a reason… And just because it’s a big deal doesn’t mean you can fudge the numbers. Percentages always worked the same. The market can shift 5%, 10% on a million-dollar property just like it can on a small property, and the percentages and the models keep you safe and prevent you from making mistakes.

Joe Fairless: I like it.

Mark Collard: I can understand the logic, but I’m committed to not doing that.

Joe Fairless: Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?

Mark Collard: Yeah, let’s do it.

Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.

Break: [00:21:27].05] to [00:22:09].13]

Joe Fairless: Best ever book you’ve read?

Mark Collard: Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill, his most recent one.

Joe Fairless: Best ever deal you’ve done?

Mark Collard: It’s a scratch & dent lender, I bought a property subject to… Within 90 days I put up 100k and I got half a million back in 89 days.

Joe Fairless: What’s a scratch & dent lender?

Mark Collard: [laughs] It was back before the meltdown — actually, it was in the middle of the meltdown. It was a lender that goes out and buys subprime debt that never gets paid. So it was a 1.4 million dollar loan and it never made one payment.

Joe Fairless: And how did you make that money?

Mark Collard: I discounted the debt. I called the lender, the lender said “Hey, we’ve already sold this loan off”, and I said “Well, who did you sell it to? It just now went delinquent.” They said, “Yeah, there’s a scratch & dent lender out of New York.” They gave me the number, I called them and I negotiated… It took 89 days and we were able to sell the property and discount the property by close to half a million dollars.

Joe Fairless: Best ever way you like to give back?

Mark Collard: My time. We call ourselves investors in man and land, in that order, and I always consider that a relationship is way more important than a deal, so we always put people first in the transaction. We meet tons of people, we give our time. We have a statement that we say, “Everybody’s worth five minutes”… And you encourage them, you give them ideas, you share your resources and you never know what’s gonna come back.

Joe Fairless: What’s a mistake you’ve made on a transaction?

Mark Collard: Getting intoxicated and basically buying too many properties too fast. I’ve done that twice.

Joe Fairless: You were literally drunk?

Mark Collard: [laughs] No, intoxicated is not so much an actual inebriation, it’s buying real estate with your ego versus your models.

Joe Fairless: You live in Vegas, I wasn’t sure. I had to clarify. [laughter] A lot of fun stuff happening over there.

Mark Collard: Understood.

Joe Fairless: It makes sense. Where can the Best Ever listeners get in touch with you?

Mark Collard: They can reach out to me at any time, coachcollard.com, or you can e-mail me at mark@coachcollard.com. My phone number is 702 625 21 07. Please, just give me some grace, because I don’t call people back very quickly. Feel free to text.

Joe Fairless: Alright, well you’re the exact opposite of me… I hate text messages. I hate them with a passion. Mark, I did love our conversation though, on the opposite end of that… Holy cow, some really practical piece of advice. Three things are standing out in my notes. One is on your second transaction, how you negotiated with the lender from $17,000 to $1,500, and you gave some examples for how to do that.

Two is the mobile home park that you’re working on, with the zero money down, seller financing structure, and you discussed how to approach it that way… And then three is your percentage thing. I like your quote, “Just because you can buy, doesn’t mean you should buy”, and translate the profits into a percentage – I love that stuff. We talked about how we might think of it differently, but how you’re holding steady with your thought process and appreciate that.

Thanks so much for being on the show, Mark. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Mark Collard: You as well, thank you very much. I enjoyed being on the show.

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JF881: Why Wholesaling Requires OVER-DELIVERY of Expectations in Marketing, Sellers, and Buyers

“Above and beyond” is a phrase that the denotes doing a little more than what was expected. You are going to hear that today from Sinclair, because she has scaled her business by doing more than her competition. Hear about how she was able to grow by going the extra mile.

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Sinclair Sweat Real Estate Background:

– Full time real estate investor
– Primarily focused on single family homes and wholesaling for over 4 years
– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada
– Say hi to him at 313-412-8189
– Best Ever Book: Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill

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JF830: EBay was Where He Found His 2nd Home and Flips and Holds

Have you ever purchased anything on eBay? How about a house? Today’s guest did it, and is now focused on his big goal, which is to buy and hold multi family units. Hear how he started and where he’s going!

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Omar Merced Real Estate Background:

– Agent with Real Estate Wishes LLC
– Started investing in real estate in 2002 buying a fourplex
– Bought second investment property on eBay
– Became an agent in 2009 and got into property management, managing 1,000 doors.
– Currently flipping houses and moving to multi family next year
– Joined Army at 17 years old and served for 16 years
– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada
– Say hi to him at http://www.realestatewishes.com
– Best Ever Book: Richest Man in Babylon

Made Possible Because of Our Best Ever Sponsors:

You find the deals. We’ll fund them. Yes, it’s that simple. Fund That Flip is an online lender that provides fast and affordable capital to real estate investors. We make funding your projects easy so you can focus on what you do best…rehabilitating homes.

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JF725: When a Lawsuit Eats Your Profits on a Property #situationsaturday

Today’s guest found himself in a sticky situation when he was being sued in a fix and flip project didn’t go the way he planned. A storm came and damages racked up. $35,000 would be owed by our guest, but luckily he completed the transaction in a creative way, hear how he did it.

Best Ever Tweet:

Bill Gatten Real Estate Background:

– Co founder of Open Door Wealth Management; A training program in creative real estate financing
– Author of “Keeping It…”
– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada
– Say hi at landtrust.net

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JF694: How to Legally Seller Finance ANY Existing Loan

Afraid of the Due On Sale Clause? Well don’t worry, our guest has you covered! He shares how you can slip into a seller financed deal on any existing loan while complying with Didd Frank. This is a VALUABLE episode, listen up!

Best Ever Tweet:

Bill Gatten Real Estate Background:

– Co founder of Open Door Wealth Management
– Author of “Keeping It…”
– Based in Las Vegas, Nevada
– Say hi at landtrust.net

Listen to all episodes and get a FREE crash course on real estate investing at: http://www.joefairless.com

Made Possible Because of Our Best Ever Sponsors:

You find the deals. We’ll fund them. Yes, it’s that simple. Fund That Flip is an online lender that provides fast and affordable capital to real estate investors.

We make funding your projects easy so you can focus on what you do best…rehabilitating homes. Learn more at http://www.fundthatflip.com/bestever.

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JF204: Where are the Best Ever Places to Invest in Las Vegas?

Curious about the Las Vegas market and if it makes sense to invest there?  Today’s Best Ever guest shares with you her perspective.

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Debbie Drummond’s real estate background:

–        Team leader of The Las Vegas Luxury Home Pro and Drummond/Petit Team based in Las Vegas

–        Say hi on Twitter – https://twitter.com/vegashomepro

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JF36: Flipping Properties in Bad, BAD Neighborhoods

Flipping properties in bad neighborhoods can be scary and profitable. Today’s Best Ever guest talks about what it is like working in some of the roughest Las Vegas neighborhoods. He also gives invaluable tips how to effectively manage contractors.

Tune in to listen to his Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever!

Jacob Cherrington’s real estate background:

–        Has done over 150 flips in Las Vegas since 2009

–        Largest deal is a 200 unit flip

–        Currently flipping three 30 unit properties

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Sponsored by: Door Devil – visit www.doordevil.com and enter “bestever” to get an exclusive 20% discount on your purchase.

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Joe Fairless