JF2658: 3 Ways Land Investors Can Find Better Deals with Brent Bowers #SkillsetSunday
CEO and Land Coach Brent Bowers believes that anyone can get into land investing with little to no money or risk. It only took him nine months to become financially free, and he’s continued to use his strategy throughout his career. In this episode, Brent shares how he made some of his greatest deals, and three ways you can source better land investment deals.
Brent Bowers | Real Estate Background
- Career: CEO of Zech Buys Houses LLC, and Land Coach at The Land Sharks
- 12 years of real estate investing experience
- Based in Colorado Springs, CO
- Say hi to him at www.thelandsharks.com
Check out Brent’s other episode with us here: bit.ly/JF1490BrentBowers
Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Ash Patel and I’m with today’s guest, Brent Bowers. Brent is joining us from Colorado Springs, Colorado. He was a previous guest on a couple of episodes. If you Google Joe Fairless and Brent Bowers, the episodes will show up. Brent, we’re glad to have you back. Thank you for joining us and how are you today?
Brent Bowers: Thank you so much for having me, Ash.
Ash Patel: Awesome, man. Hey, today’s Sunday, so Best Ever listeners, we are doing a skill set Sunday where we talk about a particular skill that our guest has. Brent is the CEO of two companies, and today he’ll be showing us how anyone can invest in land with little to no money or risk. He’s also a land coach for Wholesaling, Inc. Brent, before we get into your particular skill set, can you tell the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and what you’re focused on now?
Brent Bowers: Yeah. My background – I started in real estate in 2007, got my real estate license in 2007, because I thought that to be a great investor, I need to have a real estate license. Well, we all know what happened in 2008-2009. I kind of took a little break from real estate for a few years while I joined the military and went back to school. The military actually sent me to school in 2013, and I started house-hacking before I even knew that was a term. I was renting out the rooms and that kind of gave me my start. Then I started wholesaling houses, and then ultimately stumbled upon wholesaling land. In my second land deal, I created a passive income note of $400 a month. I was like, “This is too good to be true.” Because I just covered my car payment, is what I did. Then I did it again and again and again. Before I knew it, I now have 114 notes pay me every single month on vacant, raw, unimproved land. Most people drive by land every day and they don’t even look twice at it. I’ve virtually had no competition. So I’ve been shouting it from the rooftops, I’ve been teaching people how to do this, and having a lot of fun.
Ash Patel: You’re blowing my mind. So vacant land is somehow paying you.
Brent Bowers: Yeah, absolutely.
Ash Patel: Let’s dive into that. I’ve got to hear more.
Brent Bowers: Yeah, let’s keep it super simple. It’s as simple as it sounds, really. What I’m doing is I’m buying stuff at a massive discount. It’s just like houses, apartments, or mobile homes, 99 out of 100 sellers are not going to need your discounted price for your speed and your convenience, and all the things you offer. But there’s that one out of 100 that’s going to need to get that monkey off their back or speed, or convenience, or they’re about to lose it, or they inherited it, no emotion tied to it. So we just need to talk to the right amount of people, and before we know it, you have someone that’s like, “Yeah, I’ll sell it for…” “Shoot me an offer,” or “I’ll take $200.” I’ve gotten land for free, that I’ve made $27,000 profits on. So it’s just one of those things. It’s so real. We just got to talk to the right people.
Ash Patel: Brent, everybody says don’t buy assets that are not cash-flowing. Not only is your land not cash-flowing, but it’s also not improved and has no way of cash-flowing. How is the money coming in?
Brent Bowers: That’s why I never bought land myself, honestly. I looked at these parcels of land and I’m like, “There’s no way I can buy it.” Because I started as a landlord. I just started accumulating rentals, and before I realized it, they really were cash-flowing, they were paying for themselves. Then every time I got a little bit of a profit, something broke. Something always breaks on a house when you have tenants. You’re guaranteed two things in life when your landlord – to die and to fix things for tenants.
So how does my land cash flow? Let me just give you a quick example. That second land deal that I did, I purchased for $500 from a lady that was pushing 91 years old. She was the sweetest, kindest lady. She was like, “Look, my husband bought this thing 20 years ago.” We were sitting on her front porch in Denver, Colorado; her porch was bigger than my entire house, so I’m not buying it from a poor person either. She was educated, she was very well-spoken, and she said, “Look, it’s yours for $500. I don’t want it. I’ve been paying the taxes on it for 10 years now. My husband bought it 20 years ago, yada yada.”
What I did was I wrote her a $500 check for this piece of land. It was not buildable, because it was not accessible. Actually, it was encased by state land so, technically, we had to figure out how to get an ingress-egress or an easement through the state. So there was going to be some attorney and some legal work done there. But I wasn’t going to mess with that. What I did was I went on Craigslist that night when I got home. I had actually stopped by the land, took photos, put it on Craigslist, disclosed everything I knew about it… Not accessible, not buildable, 4.7 acres, $500 down, $400 a month. And I sold that property the next day on a Sunday. The guy literally brought me the cash and brought me $400 every single month. That’s where I was hooked. I was like, “There’s no way I can keep doing this.”
Ash Patel: Was that essentially a land contract?
Brent Bowers: 100%. I sold it on a land contract or a contract for deed. I had my attorney draw one up; and I even offer people mine that I use for free. But I just ask “Have your attorney check it out that way you can use it across state lines.” But yeah, that land was cash-flowing. And by the way, Ash, I got my investment out of it the next day. My rental that I bought in 2007 – I didn’t get my investment out of it until I sold the darn thing 12 years later at the same price I purchased it for.
Ash Patel: A couple of things. I love the analogy with single-family houses, because it’s fun to do those proformas, but you don’t take into account the plumbing problems, the HVAC going out, the roof leak even though the inspection went well. There’s a lot of what-ifs. Right now, you sold this land for $500 and $400 a month; your car payment is taken care of, you’re feeling good, and you want to repeat this, I’m assuming?
Brent Bowers: Yeah. I remember sitting down with my wife and I was like, “Wait a minute, this is financial freedom. We’ve got to figure out how much we owe each month.” It was almost like $6,000 a month at that time, this was 2016, and we spent about $6,000 a month. We just had our first baby, we moved across the country. So what we did was “Okay, what is our water bill? What is our electric bill? What is our house payment?” And then each land deal, I would check something else off the box. Before we knew it — it took us almost nine months actually to become financially free. I was like, “Hey, I can get out of the military now.” I’m not bashing rental properties. I love buying buildings with the cash that I get from my land cash flow, because buildings give me three things – appreciation, depreciation of the building, so it gives me a tax write-off, and then mortgage paid out. So all those things combined create wealth in the long run, but not cash flow for me; they pay for themselves.
Ash Patel: So at this point, did you pursue additional real estate or strictly land?
Brent Bowers: I did both, actually. I really, really heavily pushed the land, because my goal was, I was trying to hit $100,000 a month in payments coming in for the land. I have not reached that goal yet, but I did hire a coach that he actually was way past that. So I paid him the one-on-one coach me and I’m getting there. We’re getting closer every single day. I’m not there yet, but yeah, I still bought houses. Because here’s the thing, at the end of the year, they tell me what my tax bill was, and I pay a CPA about six grand a year to tell me, “Hey, here’s how many houses you need to buy to pay very little in taxes.” Because I would rather buy a house with that tax money, than send it to the IRS.
Ash Patel: Your coach, was he or she a land flipper, or just a general business or real estate coach?
Brent Bowers: I would say land dealer is what I would put a tag on him as. He’d been doing this for 20 years. I think I did 10 or 12 land deals before I hired a coach. I was almost at $200,000 and I was like “There’s got to be a way I can systematize this and structure it and turn it into a business.” Now I have a team running the whole thing for me. So it’s just purely a real business.
Ash Patel: I’m still trying to grasp my head around this. You used the typical wholesaling approaches – the mailers, the mass marketing – and you tried to buy land instead of single-family houses or multifamily.
Brent Bowers: You hit it on the head. Absolutely.
Ash Patel: And what’s your typical seller? I get the person who bought the land, it’s been in the family forever, they want to dispose of it. What other types of sellers do you run into?
Brent Bowers: I run into that seller… And these don’t have to all be behind on taxes or out of state. I’ve had people that live in the same county, the same city, that – they just want to offload the property. Lately – it’s actually really sad to say – we’ve been mailing across the country and some people have lost loved ones, that that was their land, and they inherited it. Sometimes it was like a husband or wife purchased it, sometimes the seller is “Hey, I bought this land in Colorado. Me and my wife went out on vacation here 20 years ago. We never did anything with it. We wanted to build a cabin; we actually had plans.” I’ve had sellers who show me the plans that they had drawn up for like a cabin or a dream second home. Who else…? Neighbors that bought the lot next door to them, they never did anything with it. They vary, they really do.
Ash Patel: I get that. A lot of my friends, and me included, are looking at land to buy just to run four-wheelers. Some of the guys want it for hunting, but I don’t think they realize all the things that come along with it. You’ve got to keep it groomed to some extent, the taxes, any trespass signs, survey… I mean, there’s a lot that goes with it. But on the surface, it’s just appealing. “Hey, you know I’ve got 20 acres to go [unintelligible [00:09:57].06]”
Brent Bowers: Oh yeah. It’s the American dream. I sell to a lot of people that just want those 20 acres to go out and ride those four-wheelers. Now, they weren’t all $295 or $500. They’ve gotten bigger. But yeah, it’s totally the American dream. That’s my buyers and my sellers.
Ash Patel: Brent, do you focus strictly on land or do you still try to wholesale apartments and single families?
Brent Bowers: I would say probably 7 out of 10 is land. We pick up deals like mobile homes and houses, we will wholesale them, we will assign the contract to the house. I try and do like a renovation or a flip on a house once a quarter… Because those come. This business works hand in hand with houses and land and multifamily. It’s just given me the ability to scale on a level I didn’t realize. But it’s funny how I ran into land – it actually started with houses, and then it kind of flopped more towards land and less towards houses, but the houses still come along. So a little bit of everything. I’m an investor in a 19-unit apartment complex, and we bought our office building, so more moving into commercial as well… Because you got to do something with the land profits, because you cannot depreciate land. So it’s really taxed at a higher tax rate, ordinary income.
Ash Patel: Are there a lot of people doing what you’re doing?
Brent Bowers: I don’t feel like there is. I still say there’s virtually no competition in this business, and I told you why. The same thing with you, Ash; you said land doesn’t cash-flow. That’s what most people think, and that’s what I used to think as well.
Ash Patel: I love that contrarian approach, man. Go where no one else is going. I’m going to push you for a second. I’ve tried to convince a lot of wholesalers over the years who’ve strictly focused on single-family homes to go into commercial. And again, my definition of commercial is non-residential buildings. So strip malls, mixed-use buildings, medical… And there’s just nobody doing that. So for the last 10 plus years, I’ve been a commercial real estate investor and I’ve only gotten one postcard where somebody said, “Hey, quick cash offer for your building.” I knew it wasn’t a mistake, because they wrote the word “building” instead of “house.” So one wholesaler I’ve ever come across in 10 years that wants a commercial property. So it sounds like people should be looking at land as well. But at the same time, why don’t you look at commercial properties? What would it take to get you to dive into that?
Brent Bowers: I actually hired Dolf De Roos, the king of commercial, to help me. Dolf has helped me one on one. [unintelligible [00:14:00].23] Dolf De Roos, king of cash flow, is mentoring me on commercial. Also, another guy Ken Van Liew, who builds skyscrapers in New York. It’s funny you say that, because I’m looking more into diversifying into commercial. I love commercial, because it’s more contract-based and not people-based. That’s why I love land, because my land buyers don’t call me when there’s a problem. I call them usually and say “Hey, you’re late. You now have a $75 late fee that was automatically tacked on.” Because at the end of the day, I love people, but I don’t want to deal with people. And with my house rentals, that’s what the property manager does. But the best part about commercial, for me, is it’s more contract-centric, not people-centric.
Ash Patel: And Brent, how can new investors get into what you’re doing?
Brent Bowers: For the land or the commercial?
Ash Patel: For the land.
Brent Bowers: Alright. So for the land, I just started a YouTube channel about five months ago and I have a video going out five days a week, Monday through Friday. I highly recommend going to my YouTube channel. Go to YouTube and just search Brent Bowers. But there’s a payment; you’ve got to pay, you’ve got to subscribe. That’s the only way you’re going to get to see these videos and they’re actually going to work for you. You can watch them, but if you don’t subscribe, they won’t work for you. [laughs]
So that’s probably the way I would recommend. Start this with a very small barrier of entry. The first land deal – I bought for $285, sold it to a realtor the next day for five grand. It’s a realtor, that realtor knew that area. So it’s a very small barrier of entry, and that’s why I love it so much. My father’s done about 35 of these land deals now. I’ve got my dad doing it… So I can’t say enough great things about it.
Ash Patel: Let’s take the wholesaler. They search for maybe people that are behind on taxes, or they look for properties that are not well kept. What can they do to start getting land?
Brent Bowers: Let’s get granular with this. Let’s talk about how we can start right away. So in the beginning, I started with the tax delinquent list. Now I’m starting to notice counties are charging for those, and they’re really a pain in the butt. They scan this PDF, and it’s like schedule numbers or APN, the assessor’s parcel number, and you’ve got to put that into the assessor site to get the name, and the address of the mailing… Then if it’s got a property address, then how big is it… That was a really big pain in the butt for me. I’ve found that there are easier ways. You can go to PropStream and download a list of landowners in a county in five minutes. I could even give a link with a free seven-day free trial and you can go get a list for free right now if you’d like for me to do that.
The second thing is you want to communicate with this list. I recommend sending a postcard or an LOL, a land offer letter. Send them an exact offer letter of what you would offer on this land, or a postcard just saying — just like you said, “Hey, I’d like to buy your building,” but it’s “I’d like to buy your land. If you’re interested in a quick cash offer, a fair offer, call me.” That’ll get your phone ringing; and you can start individually looking at these parcels of land, seeing what the least amount of money the seller would take.
Then go and figure out what it’s worth by calling a realtor, looking on Zillow, seeing what stuff’s sold for in the area; Redfin, another favorite, or landwatch.com. How do you figure out what lands are worth? Well, I just gave you three: Redfin, Zillow, landwatch.com. And you want to compare apples to apples, one-acre parcel, two-acre parcels, or quarter-acre 8,500 square feet. Compare apples to apples within the same area; if Zillow or Redfin says the lands are worth 10 grand, and you can get the thing under contract for $4,500, you now have an asset under contract at 50 cents on the dollar. I literally have a student that just got a piece of land under contract for $95,000, 36 acres in Park County, Colorado. Guess what they figured out was on it? A cabin, an off-grid cabin, with solar that sleeps almost nine people. He already had the land under contract for 50 cents on the dollar, because it’s worth almost 200k, and it had a cabin too. So you really get lucky when you go out and work every day at this.
Ash Patel: Can we go over some land parcels that are super attractive? And I would ask you if there’s anything you wouldn’t touch, but you already touched a property that had no access to it. So I’ll still ask it… Is there anything that is off-limits when it comes to land?
Brent Bowers: No. If it makes a profit, if I can get it at a crazy discount, and/or I can change the zoning, or kind of like with commercial, you change the zoning, you could probably pay a little bit more… If I can figure out a way to make the profit on the land and it doesn’t take a ton of work, I’ll do it. I don’t generally like subdividing or changing the zoning, and I don’t like cleaning up junk cars. I will answer one thing I won’t touch – I’m not going to touch on environmental issues. I don’t want to mess with environmental stuff, and I haven’t really run across too much of that.
Ash Patel: What if you buy at the side of a hill? A steep hill? Would you buy it?
Brent Bowers: Heck yeah. I have a friend that bought a piece of land, it was a cliff. He bought it for like nothing. Guess who’s renting it from him? Someone out in Hollywood; they film with it. So he didn’t have to sell it.
Ash Patel: What’s really in demand?
Brent Bowers: You know what’s really in demand lately? Buildable infill lots, things that spec home builders or developers can build on. Also what’s in demand – recreational land where people can go just outside the city, park their camper or their RV, go camp with their kids, create memories, get out of the city; not go to Disney World, but we’re going to go on a camping trip. COVID really changed the land business for me. I remember we didn’t even know what COVID was. It was February; I purchased the lake house, we come home in March, and what is this COVID-19 thing? I was like “Oh my goodness, we just spent almost all of our money on this lake house. My land buyers are going to stop paying.” One stopped paying, and actually, we just modified his loan. Then I actually had a lot of land inventory for sale. Then about April and May, we sold it all, because there was just more of a demand.
Ash Patel: What’s an example of where you did not make money?
Brent Bowers: On a piece of land? I got a little cocky on my first five or six land deals. And as Tony Robbins would say, “When you’re winning, when you’re making a lot of money, you’re partying. When you lose money, you ponder.” So I was actually an army officer, I was working 12 or 13 hour days, had my new baby at home, wanted to spend time with my wife, and I was doing these land deals left and right. When I could get a chance away from the army stuff, I would take my lunch break, and I would buy these lots. I kind of bought a few of them right off the bat. I wasn’t running title searches, I wasn’t doing owner incumbrances, and I didn’t realize what a treasurer’s deed was. Basically, what that is – I’m sure you know Ash, but when someone’s not paying their taxes, there’s something called a tax lien investor and they come in and pay them for you. Well, if you pay for enough years, it becomes deed eligible, and you can foreclose on that property and take it from that seller. Well, I bought a few of those as well that came on treasures deeds. And when I turn around to flip them, my buyer was going through a real estate agent, and I list it with my realtor, we figured out “Oh, there’s a cloud on the title.”
On one particular property — I was able to pull it off on most of them and still make money by offering seller financing. Seller financing and buying at a massive discount gives you the biggest margin of safety you’ll ever realize. It gives you such a buffer. But this one particular property that I purchased with a treasures deed – I didn’t do a title search, and it sounds so stupid for me to say it… But in the beginning, I was “I can’t mess up. The county says is worth 35,000, it’s assessed at $3,300, I’m paying half the assessed value… I can’t mess up, right?” Well, this one particular parcel, I didn’t even go and look at it. I just knew it was in a great area. Well, I come to find out there’s like a huge crater in the ground, plus the treasurer’s deed… And I finally did sell it for exactly what I paid for it, but with owner financing,
Ash Patel: I think a lot of us have that humbling experience and I think we need it. Because when things are going well, it almost feels like everything you touch turns to gold. And I had people say that to me, and I actually believed it. And I had the same humbling experience… So that’s very valuable. So somebody starting out and they’re contemplating single-family homes, multifamily, maybe they have a full-time job… How do they start with this? Can they just get on Craigslist, get on the MLS, try to find land, call the sellers, and try to negotiate a deal?
Brent Bowers: No. When you’re first starting out and you have that full-time job… I teach people how to do this, like, “Hey, I just quit my job and dived into this full time.” I don’t recommend that, because you can’t go out in your backyard today and plant an orange tree and live off of it tomorrow. You’ve got to cultivate it, you’ve got to get that thing off the ground, you’v got to start building the business. So what I recommend is pick your playground; that’s your area. I started in my own backyard. It was a two-hour radius; so I could get there on a weekend if I needed to. I picked that area, then I went to PropStream, and I started pulling the entire county land list. Then I went to Zillow, Redfin, and LandWatch, and I wanted to see where the volume was. Where’s the land selling the most? What size? Then I noticed it was a certain size, and then I went after that first. This was after I exhausted the tax delinquent list. Because that list is so small. The tax-delinquent list, you run out of it very quickly. So you can start there, or you pull the entire county list, and the tax link will be in that county list as well.
Then start mailing them that postcard that I talked about. Get your phone ringing; return those phone calls on your lunch break, or in the evenings. Then have a great call with those sellers, listen to them, understand what’s going on, and solve their problems. At the end of the day, it’s not about us buying land at crazy discounts, it’s about solving that problem for the seller – usually it’s the land – and then getting it under contract. Then either assigning your contract to a builder or developer, or buying that thing, and selling it on Craigslist, or Facebook, or with a sign. I sold so many of my parcels of land with signs. I moved a lot in the army, side a lot of boxes at home. I couldn’t afford the signs, so I would write on these boxes and staple them to a tree, or put them on a stake. As soon as it rained, my box was trashed. But I sold so many parcels with free boxes that I got from moving all over the country in the army, or all over the world, honestly.
Ash Patel: Very underrated. Craigslist, Facebook, and signs. Amazing what they can accomplish. On Facebook, not only on Marketplace, but hit the local towns; get onto the pages of what town your property is in, and engage with the residents of that town. That helps a lot.
Right now industrial is on fire. Two of the biggest landlords in the world are operators of industrial or logistics land. Are you doing anything with that?
Brent Bowers: No, I’m not.
Ash Patel: Let’s push you again. Anything near airports or intersecting interstates where there’s a workforce – super-hot. We’ve done a few deals near airports and interstates for large multi-million square foot industrial buildings. These large companies often don’t have the resources to go out and scout their own land; they rely on others to bring them deals. So it might be something for you to look at.
Brent Bowers: That’s incredible. I actually just watched Amazon build a 20-acre building right outside the airport in Colorado Springs. Imagine that land seller, how happy they were.
Ash Patel: Yeah, and how hot it is. Amazon now has realized that they’re making a lot of landlords very wealthy. So they’re now getting into buying the land, building their own infrastructure, and keeping it on their books, versus just leasing it. Yeah, man, I love your story. I can’t imagine where you’re going to be in six months. Let’s keep in touch and see what you’re working on later on. What else do you have for the Best Ever listeners? What advice on getting started?
Brent Bowers: First off, thank you so much for that tip as well. That’s amazing. That’s worth millions of dollars. That’s going to lead me to answering your question right now, Ash. Between you and I – we just talked about so many things that can create a millionaire in the next two, three, four, or five years. It’s just taking action; you’ve got to take action and do it. At the end of the day, you can listen to a thousand podcasts; if you don’t take action… And how do you take action? When do you take action? How to take action? Well, time-block it; put it on your schedule. When I’ve got to get something done, I block out my schedule, turn my phone off, turn my email off… Delete Facebook off your phone, don’t scroll. Create. Don’t consume, create. You’ve got enough knowledge to go ahead and pull the trigger. You’ve got all the answers for today, and tomorrow’s answers will come to you tomorrow, when you need them. So just take action.
Ash Patel: I love that. And your time blocking and leaving your phone away – I just started separating myself from my phone. You do it in baby steps. Walk out of your office and leave your phone behind, or leave it in the kitchen while you go into your office. It’s amazing how free you feel. So start out with five minutes. You think, “Oh my god, what if I miss a call? Okay, not that big of a deal.” Then go 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and you’ll be amazed how you can unleash yourself from your phone. Great advice, man.
Brent Bowers: Digital noose. I used to call it a digital leash, but I think it’s a digital noose. Monday, I filmed 20 videos for my YouTube channel. I did them all in one day, and I didn’t look at my phone from nine to five. Most people think “Oh my God, it’s going to take me forever to get caught up.” Well, I was able to return all those calls and all those text messages from nine to five… It maybe took me 20 minutes.
Ash Patel: Yeah, and the world didn’t collapse while you didn’t have your phone.
Brent Bowers: No. Exactly. In 20 minutes? But think about it, what if I answered it, checked it, and replied all day long? That would have kept that text message communication going, that 20 minutes would have turned into an eight-hour day.
Ash Patel: I love it. Brent, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?
Brent Bowers: Find me on YouTube. You definitely have to subscribe though… As well as, if you’re interested — thanks for mentioning it. I’m a Wholesaling, Inc. coach. Head on over to wholesalinginc.com/land. If you’re interested in booking a call with me and my team, we’ll see what your goals are. If you want to jump in the land, I’d be honored to coach you.
Ash Patel: Brent, thank you for a great conversation today. Starting out in 2007, going into the military, house hacking, and then just accidentally getting into land, and going full speed ahead on it. What a great story, man. Thanks for sharing.
Brent Bowers: Thank you, Ash.
Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us, and have a Best Ever day.
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