JF2577: Managing Property Managers 101 with Yosef Lee
Moving from South Korea at age 18, Yosef Lee always strived to prove himself in a new country. From working multiple part-time jobs to becoming a full-time civil litigation lawyer, this father of three quickly learned to manage his time. Yosef is talking with us about where he invests his time and prioritization, how he maximized his investments during the pandemic, and his top six tips for managing your property managers.
Yosef Lee Real Estate Background:
- Currently works as a W-2 full-time lawyer doing civil litigation. He became a multifamily investor at night and on weekends.
- In February or March of 2020, he joined a multifamily mentorship group/Mastermind with the goal of closing his first multifamily deal in 2020. In December 2020, his first 44-unit deal was closed.
- Current portfolio consists of 44 Units (JV): Lead GP — Closed in December 2020; 68 Units (Syndication): Lead Sponsor GP — Closed in March 2021; 63 Units (Syndication): Co-sponsor GP — Closed in April 2021; 36 Units (Syndication): Co-sponsor GP — Closed in May 2021
- Based in New York, NY
- Say hi to him at: syndicro.com and www.yosefhlee.com
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Joe Fairless. This is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast, where we only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of the fluffy stuff.
With us today, Yosef Lee. How are you doing, Yosef?
Yosef Lee: I’m doing great and very well. Thank you very much for the invitation, Joe. It’s my honor to be here.
Joe Fairless: Well, it’s my pleasure, and I’m glad to hear it. Yosef’s got some good experience on deals. And I was looking at your list of deals that you’ve done – it looks like they’re all under 100 units, from what I can tell so far. And that’s going to be really interesting to talk about.
Yosef is currently working as a W-2 full-time lawyer doing civil litigation, but he became a multifamily investor at night and on the weekends, and he has been quite busy. He joined a multifamily mentorship mastermind group with his goal of closing his first multifamily deal in 2020. And in December 2020, he got his first 44-unit deal closed. And since then, he has done a 68-unit syndication, a 63-unit, a 36-unit… So we’ve got a lot to talk about how he did this, and then the components and the details of that. So he’s based in Queens, New York.
With that being said, Yosef, first, do you want to give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus, and then we’ll go right into it?
Yosef Lee: Sure. Thank you, Joe. My name is Yosef, and I’m South Korean immigrant. I came here at the age of 18. So I really grew up in South Korea and came here for college. And ever since I came here, it’s a life-changing experience; new lifestyle, language, new people, new friends… So ever since I came here, it’s been all about proving myself in a new country. So I always worked, I’ve worked more than 10 different part-time jobs, in different segments like fish market, bar, coffee shop, restaurants, and just trying to get better version of myself and to have my ends met. And I achieved some goals, I’ve also made many mistakes, paid the price, and moved on, and learned the lessons.
Now, I’m an attorney licensed in three different states – New York, New Jersey and Florida, and I made it while I was working full-time and going to school at night. So I’m proud of that. That was not easy. I made it through. Now, I’m a father of two girls, and during nights and weekends, I’ve become multifamily investor; I’m trying to take back control of my time. I’m looking for time freedom, and all the opportunities from passive income streams.
Joe Fairless: That’s impressive. That is truly impressive, what you’ve done so far, and you won’t have even scratched the surface for where you’re about to go. So some follow-up questions. You said new friends, new language, 18 years old when you moved here… You knew English coming here though, right?
Yosef Lee: Some basics. There’s a funny episode. I was not able to properly pronounce, “The room was furnished.” So I said, “The room was punished.” I recall my cousin was laughing at me when I just came here. I knew some grammar, but the pronunciations and conversational level was really, really bottom.
Joe Fairless: Uh-huh. Okay, you came here—how old are you now?
Yosef Lee: I’m 39.
Joe Fairless: 39 years old.
Yosef Lee: So it’s been almost 20 years?
Joe Fairless: Yep. Almost 20 years, and you are a full-time lawyer doing civil litigation. What are you litigating exactly?
Yosef Lee: 99% we do is personal injury litigation. So we take care of our clients who are victims of accidents; worksite accidents, trip and falls, slip and falls, against the city, against the insurance companies.
Joe Fairless: And on the nights and weekends, for approximately 1.5-2 years, you’ve been focused on multifamily. Is that correct?
Yosef Lee: That’s correct. Obviously, my job is very time demanding. So from 9-6, strictly, I’ve got to focus on the litigation side. I go to court every day. Unfortunately for many others, but thankfully for myself, the court has been shut down for a long time because of COVID, and that’s where I seriously started my real estate journey. So we kind of got—it shrinked my schedule, so I didn’t have to go to the court. It’s been all done through remote. So that’s how I was able to schedule my schedules more efficiently, if that makes sense.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, that brings up something that you have maximized—from what it seems like, you’ve maximized the amount of things you’ve accomplished within this period of time, because of the 10 different part-time jobs you mentioned… And I don’t I believe you do any of those now. And becoming a lawyer, and now closing on deals… But you also — I think you said, you have three kids. Is that right? Did I hear that right?
Yosef Lee: I have three kids. Yes.
Joe Fairless: You have three kids. Okay. So you have a lot of different areas of your life that are competing for time. So how do you think about time and where you invest your time?
Yosef Lee: I get that question a lot, because I have a full-time job, and doing real estate with two kids, my family. So I do excessive planning and time blocking. I think it’s more of a level of obsession. And I used to bring work home before. I love to work, don’t get me wrong, first of all, but I gave up on that. So now I try to work a lot harder from 9-6, condensed and focused, so that I can spare more time for real estate at home, at nights and weekends. And like I said, I do everyday planning daily for daily to-do list, weekly, and monthly, and yearly. And like I said, it’s more of an obsession level. It’s constant planning, prioritizing, adjusting, and then taking actions upon that. If I set the to-do list, then I’ve got to do it. I think is the key to be able to manage all these different hats.
Joe Fairless: Okay, do you do it electronically, or is it just a piece of paper that you write this down?
Yosef Lee: I use them all. I basically start using my calendar app and to-do list app on my phone. And then for the time blocking, I actually handwrite things. I have a little piece of paper that, out of all that to-do list today, I’ve got at least finish these three tasks. I’ve got to complete that, and I write those three things on a piece of paper, right in front of me.
Joe Fairless: Got it. So you prioritize for that day, “Hey, regardless what happens, these three things definitely have to get done.”
Yosef Lee: Gotta do that everyday. Because I usually put a lot more things on my to-do list than I probably can’t finish. So I know many things are not going to be done, but at least by prioritizing, I could make sure that the important ones are done that day.
Joe Fairless: What are the three things today?
Yosef Lee: Wow, three things today. Number one is meeting Joe Fairless on the Best Ever show. That was number one.
Joe Fairless: Check that box.
Yosef Lee: I checked that box. And then second, I have a three o’clock motion calendar, and then I have two motions to file. So in the morning and in the afternoon, I’ve got to work on those. But usually, this is where I get my lunch hour. So I’m scheduling that for you.
Joe Fairless: Awesome. Well, I’m grateful for that. So let’s talk about deals. You joined a multifamily membership group last year; whose group did you join?
Yosef Lee: So I joined a mastermind called MIH, and I also joined Jake & Gino network.
Joe Fairless: Okay. And so I am not familiar with MIH. What is that group?
Yosef Lee: So it’s just a small group led by two guys named Marco Barbaro and Hadar Orkibi. It’s a mastermind group more of accountability part. We find deals together, we discuss about the deal, analyze it together, and then we raise capital inside and we do partnership in there. So it’s like a small group of investors, and it’s rapidly growing now.
Joe Fairless: Nice. Is that New York City-centric?
Yosef Lee: It’s not. Marco is from New York, but he moved to Florida. The members are all over the country – from New York, Connecticut, North Carolina, California, Texas. So it’s a world mingled. Marco is actually the brother of Gino from Jake & Gino.
Joe Fairless: Ahhh, okay.
Yosef Lee: So he — it’s his own thing.
Joe Fairless: Fair enough.
Joe Fairless: So first deal, December of 2020, 44 units. How many general partners were on that deal?
Yosef Lee: So the 44-unit was a joint venture, it was not a syndication. We had six partners altogether.
Joe Fairless: Tell us about it.
Yosef Lee: Okay, so I met my partners… So we have main partner groups, three. One is boots-on-the-ground in Kansas, and one from California, myself from New York. We underwrote deals together, about 30-40, and then we got this deal through a boots-on-the-ground partner’s friend who knew the seller. So we got the deal, and we submitted our LOI, and the seller liked it. The only condition the seller put out was he wants to close this deal within 60 days. So we said, “Great, we’ll do that.” So the due diligence started, we loved the deal. This deal is 1968 vintage, I believe. So it’s a kind of old, C-class property, with some deferred maintenance. And inspection revealed some issues with plumbing, mold, mildew and termite, but the seller took care of all of these buffer closings. But the roof and HVAC system were kind of old… So we asked him if he could fix it before closing. Otherwise, we want some credit. The seller chose to give us some credit, so we got $100,000 credit for that.
Joe Fairless: Wow.
Yosef Lee: Actually, two months ago we finished replacing all the roofs, and it came out to be about 60-something thousand dollars. So we got $100,000 for that, and HVAC, we replaced a couple. So overall, I think we netted about $20,000 more by their credit.
Joe Fairless: What did you purchase it for?
Yosef Lee: $1.75 million was the purchase price.
Joe Fairless: Okay. That’s about 39,700 bucks a door. And you said your Kansas partners is boots-on-the-ground. So this property is in Kansas?
Yosef Lee: It’s in Lawrence, Kansas, Kansas City.
Joe Fairless: Lawrence. Ah. Oh, Lawrence, Kansas?
Yosef Lee: Yes.
Joe Fairless: Okay. That’s where the Jayhawks are. Kansas University.
Yosef Lee: Yes. Sorry. 1963 vintage.
Joe Fairless: And is it student housing?
Yosef Lee: No, it’s not. It’s a two baths, one bath, older units. So it’s not student housing. We’ll say regular families, more of a working-class.
Joe Fairless: Okay. And you mentioned six partners, and you said you, California person, a Kansas boots-on-the-ground person… Who are the other three partners?
Yosef Lee: So other three partners – we loved the deal, but our net worth was not meeting the lender’s requirements, so we had to have one KP, and then that KP is actually Marco; he helped us. And Marco brought in two of his friends who are putting more money so that we could take down this deal together.
Joe Fairless: Okay, and what’s the compensation for a KP to bring their balance sheet?
Yosef Lee: So as a KP and as the group that found this deal and vetted… So as a main group, the four of us set aside 10% of equity before calculating the rest based on the money put in.
Joe Fairless: Okay. So the balance sheet person, in this case, Marco, but it could have been anyone – were they compensated at all for bringing in their balance sheet, or do they have to have other responsibilities, too?
Yosef Lee: No, he just came in. He also invested together. So he not only got the equity portion from the 10% set aside from the 90%, he also invested so he got the GP share from that portion as well, based on his money.
Joe Fairless: Okay. But just trying to understand, if he had just brought his balance sheet and not done anything else, what type of compensation?
Yosef Lee: Oh.
Joe Fairless: Because I get that question a lot.
Yosef Lee: I understand. He got 2.5% of equity.
Joe Fairless: Okay, cool. So 2.5% of the general partnership for bringing his balance sheet.
Yosef Lee: Yes.
Joe Fairless: There we go. Alright, sweet. And then no other fees or anything?
Yosef Lee: No.
Joe Fairless: Okay. That’s a good deal for you all, from what I’ve seen, and I’m sure everyone benefits. I’m glad it worked out for everyone.
Yosef Lee: Yes. Yes.
Joe Fairless: So that’s the 44 unit, and that’s the one you’ve had the longest; and you talked a little bit about it. But what’s something that has not gone right?
Yosef Lee: For this property, so far it’s been going really well. Our business plan was to raise the rent within this year, at least to the market level. So we have 44 units; the average rent was about $250 lower than the market rent. So as soon as we took over, what we did was every month or two, we tried to turn a six-unit to 10 units, to catch the market rent. We had more than 50% of month to month, so that was our goal, to turn the month-to-month rent into a yearly lease. And we had our property managers to approach the tenants, and slowly, we started turning them. So so far, so good, we didn’t have too much resistance. We had to evict two people during the COVID, and I was surprised it only took 28 days to evict. In New York, it’s unheard of, and I think, unimaginable.
Joe Fairless: Yep, New York, New Jersey.
Yosef Lee: Right. So far, we tested the markets without putting any work; the lease was renewed with about $60.
Joe Fairless: In California?
Yosef Lee: So we were able to raise $6 for renewal for doing nothing. And then we tried soft turning and hard turning; we were able to raise $200, $300, and there has been a good demand. So over 90% of occupancy has been maintained ever since, and we’re turning one by one. And so far, it’s been great. Our plan is to push for the rest within another half a year or a year, to cash out refi and take out all the money that we put in.
Joe Fairless: You said, soft and hard turning. How do you define that?
Yosef Lee: So when I say soft, it’s just painting and changing the hard floor to the luxury vinyl plank. It’s all carpet now. [unintelligible [00:16:45].23] then we had some sliding doors that we wanted to change into wall and windows. So we’re putting more money for that. But soft turning, were able to get $200 and hard $300.
Joe Fairless: Let’s talk about the next one, which was a 68-unit?
Yosef Lee: Sure thing. That property is in Wichita, Kansas.
Joe Fairless: Okay, so it’s in Wichita, Kansas. How far away is that from Lawrenceburg?
Yosef Lee: This is three hours west from Lawrence. And since we have our Kansas boots-on-the-ground partner, that’s where we started our base. It’s a 68-unit, 1999 vintage, more of a B-plus class property.
Joe Fairless: Oh, nice.
Yosef Lee: Yes, it was a very nice property; not much to fix, not much deferred maintenance. We did some cosmetic upgrade thereafter. But overall, it was great as is. The purchase price was $4.15 million. So it was like a $61,000 per unit-ish. And the three of us, the main partners, also became the main sponsor group on this, and we had three more partners for capital raising and as a management. They were helping us basically just for capital raising, and after that, one partner, he’s helping us to asset-manage.
Joe Fairless: And this property, and the first property — the first property you said it came from a friend of the boots-on-the-ground person knew the seller. Where did this property come from?
Yosef Lee: This property was from the relationship that we’d built with brokers or consultants. So this was from the consultant who knew the seller. So this was also sort of seller direct, because we didn’t have to compete.
Joe Fairless: Okay. So it’s through a broker, but it wasn’t fully marketed yet.
Yosef Lee: Not yet.
Joe Fairless: And why wouldn’t they fully market it?
Yosef Lee: Again, my experience is very limited, but what I noticed is that as a listing broker, before putting it on market, he has a sort of pocket listing. So he has lists of investors that he has dealt with or have a relationship with, and he is sure that they could close, so he will contact them one by one to see if they will be interested in closing this before putting it on the market. I guess that’s what’s happening.
Joe Fairless: And what is your ownership percentage on the general partnership in this deal?
Yosef Lee: In this deals, I have a little over 20% of GP share.
Joe Fairless: What has been surprising about this deal, that you perhaps weren’t expecting?
Yosef Lee: Asset management; before acquiring these property and having hands-on experience of asset management, I thought simply that hard work is the acquisition side, and then the property managers will do all the jobs and we just manage, property manage. I didn’t really understand what it would entail with managing the property managers. But now, after half a year later, I realize it’s a lot of work.
Joe Fairless: Yep.
Yosef Lee: As you manage the property managers, you’ve got to be really on top and very diligent on and making sure the business plans are executed. And you have a pool of investors that you have fiduciary duty and obligation to report back. So that’s a pressure that I’m having, and it was not something that I was able to expect before doing the asset management actually.
Joe Fairless: I had the same experience on my first deal, because I had previously owned single-family homes, and the property manager would just send me the report once a month, and I’d take a look at it, maybe, whenever I would be right about to go to sleep, and then I would look at it again, and that was it. I got the money in the bank for the single-family homes. When I bought the first apartment community, I initially took that approach, and that was a colossal mistake to initially take the same approach, because you’re right, it’s such an eye-opening experience, where we really do have to do asset management. There’s a reason why that role exists, versus just letting the property manager take it and run with it.
So what specific things do you do now as it relates to managing the property manager that you didn’t do before?
Yosef Lee: Okay, so we have bi-weekly meetings for each property. It’s my role, I follow up with the property management regarding specifically delinquent tenants, to make sure we get paid on time. If not, we’ve got to collect why it’s not being paid, and what kind of situation the tenant is going through; if there’s anything that we could help, like maybe making easy for that tenant to apply for government help or city help. So that’s one thing. And anything that’s regarding legal side, our bank lenders, I take care of them each month.
I move the funds around in the bank accounts based on our cash allocation plan or budget plan, and schedule the distribution for investors. That’s what I do. And also, investor relationships. I have a pool of investors who invested in our deals that I send out newsletters to them, just basically to tell them what’s going on with the properties. So that’s what I’m doing now in regards to the asset management.
Joe Fairless: So the biweekly meetings with the property management company – are you setting the agenda and sending it out prior, or how is it organized?
Yosef Lee: So our team altogether, we participate altogether. So we have another team member who organizes the bi-weekly meeting agenda, and we send that out to the property managers ahead of time, so that the property manager can be prepared for that. And then we go through that one by one. If something was not done on time, then we follow up next time. So that’s how we follow up.
Joe Fairless: How many partners is too many partners on a deal?
Yosef Lee: I think ideally no more than—
Joe Fairless: Two?
Yosef Lee: —four. [laughter] No, my personal experience is this – there are seven roles that I think a good syndication team is equipped with; boots-on-the-ground, underwriting, capital raising, marketing investor relationships, lender-broker relationships, experience in sponsoring, a high net worth individual… But some of the roles are needed just at ,the acquisition side of the deal, as opposed to overall as a management holding period… And you don’t really have to have seven or eight partners. I think somewhere around three, four or five, I think that’s good enough. If two people can do the job, great. But I see each person has their own strengths, and they are good with certain roles, as opposed to the others. So as a team, you just focus on what you’re good at and relying on others, and vice versa, and that’s how you maximize the efficiency of the entire team. But if he goes over, I think – my personal experience – over five, then it would be too many people that has many directions.
Joe Fairless: When you have one partner, it’s possible, maybe not as probable, that they’re not going to pull their end of the bargain. But if you have five partners – I mean, come on; there’s at least two of them that aren’t doing really much at all. And the two other partners are probably handling most of the load, and then the third one is probably just doing the average amount. I mean, it’s just law of averages. That’s just a dynamic that’s typical with human nature; I’m thinking back to college groups, when we would have a group of five; it just tends to be the dynamic.
Yosef Lee: I understand. I also believe in making specific roles. So let’s say my boots-on-the-ground partner, he’s good at finding the deals, and I want him to focus on that. I don’t want him to worry about how the cash allocation plan is going on, right? So I can tell him, “Don’t worry about it, I can get it, but you focus on what you do, and if there’s any issues, we’ll discuss at the meeting.”
Joe Fairless: Taking a step back, what’s your best real estate investing advice ever?
Yosef Lee: Best real estate advice ever – you’ve got to form a team; it’s a team play, not a “me” play. So forming a team is very important and partnership is very important, but to do so, you’ve got to know what kind of value you can bring in. So you’re going to reflect on yourself first, and then find out what value you can add, and then you’ve got to find the partners who can complement your skill set. You don’t want two Joe Fairless or you don’t want two Yosef in the same team. So that was the best advice; you’ve got to know yourself and then find the team members.
Joe Fairless: We’re going to do lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Yosef Lee: Yes.
Joe Fairless: Alright, let’s do it. What deal have you made the most money on to date? You personally, in your bank account, what deal has made the most money for you?
Yosef Lee: Again, my experience is very limited, and within that short amount of experience, I think that 68-unit appointment made the most money so far.
Joe Fairless: How much money in the bank did that make you so far?
Yosef Lee: About $25,000.
Joe Fairless: And thinking about how much that could make you should things go well and according to plan, about how much would you personally make on that 68 unit over a lifetime?
Yosef Lee: Over a lifetime, if our plan for refi goes well, and I want to keep this for the longest time, I always say between $50,000 and $100,000 for the foreseeable future, realistically.
Joe Fairless: None of these have gone full cycle. So did you do any deals prior to this, any single-family homes or anything?
Yosef Lee: No. The 44-unit was truly my first real estate experience.
Joe Fairless: Well, then I won’t ask you which ones lost the most amount of money because you haven’t lost any money… I assume that’s correct.
Yosef Lee: That’s correct.
Joe Fairless: Alright. And I’m going to knock on wood for you, just so we’re not jinxing ourselves.
Yosef Lee: Thank you… [laughs]
Joe Fairless: What’s the best way like to get back to your community?
Yosef Lee: Education. I want to always share back my experience with whoever is starting and who are situated similarly, who has W-2 job full-time, but realize the rat race game, so they want to get out. I’m open to share everything that I experienced; any tips, any experience… And that’s what I do now. I am openly inviting a lot of people to connect to me, and I get on a zoom call and I share anything and everything they ask.
Joe Fairless: How can the Best Ever listeners learn more about what you’re doing?
Yosef Lee: Please connect to me. I’m very approachable. I’m very active in social media. Connect to me and we’ll get on a call; any questions, anything that you need clarity on, I’ll share it. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll go and find out and return to you.
Joe Fairless: What’s the best way to connect with you?
Yosef Lee: I’m on LinkedIn, Insta and Facebook. My handle is yosefyourbrosef. [laughter] Just send me a friend request or a connection request and include a short note, “I heard you from Joe Fairless podcast, let’s connect,” and I’ll definitely get back to you. And I have a website, yosefhlee.com, and you can go and check it out there, too.
Joe Fairless: With the yosefyourbrosef name convention, I’m virtually giving you a fist bump for that. I respect that. I like that a lot.
Yosef Lee: I fist bump you back.
Joe Fairless: Yosef, thank you for being on the show, sharing your story… It’s impressive. You’re an impressive person for things you’ve accomplished and the challenges that you’ve overcome, and here you are, doing what you’re doing. So thank you for sharing that and then thank you for sharing the deal mechanics and some of the numbers behind the deals, some of the deals that you’ve done. So I appreciate getting to know you, I appreciate you being on the show. I hope you have a best ever day and talk to you again soon.
Yosef Lee: Thank you very much, Joe. I just want to shout out about your book, Best Ever Apartment Syndication book. That was one of the first books I read, and it actually gave me a step by step practical guideline, almost like a to-do list. And I still use some of them as my to-do list. That was great. And I started my virtual meetup in May last year, because of following your advice of having a thought leadership platform from the book.
Joe Fairless: Good.
Yosef Lee: So I really thank you, and this is so great. This is really great. You can’t really feel how I’m grateful for this.
Joe Fairless: Well, I’m really glad that you started that meetup. And just think of the relationships that are going to come from you taking the initiative to start that meetup, cultivate that community that you’ve created, and then the relationships that they’re going to create from you organizing it, and then the deals and money that will be made. I’m glad to hear that and it was great getting to know you. Talk to you soon.
Yosef Lee: Alright. Thank you, Joe. Have a great day.
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