JF2556: 3 Key Indicators of Emerging Markets with David Lindahl

When David Lindahl realized there were other people just like him doing well with real estate investing, he knew he wanted in. After years in the industry, he’s focused on multifamily, office, retail, and hotels in emerging markets. David gives us a detailed overview of emerging markets, how he finds his next deal, and what qualifications he’s looking for before investing. 

 

David Lindahl Real Estate Background:

  • Founder of RE Mentor, the #1 multifamily real estate education company, and the Lindahl Group, a real estate acquisition company where we invest in multifamily, office, retail, and hotel properties
  • Investing in real estate since 1996 and teaching since 2002
  • Has owned and syndicated several apartment deals, self-storage, retail, office, etc.
  • Portfolio consists of over 9,000 units in various entities
  • Based in Boston, MA
  • Say hi to him at: www.rementor.com
  • Best Ever Book: Becoming Supernatural: How Common People Are Doing the Uncommon

 

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TRANSCRIPTION

Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners, welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Ash Patel and I’m with today’s guest, David Lindahl. David is joining us from Boston, Massachusetts. He’s the founder of Real Estate Mentor and the Lindahl Group. The Lindahl Group invests in multifamily office, retail and hotels. David has been investing in real estate since 1996 and has been teaching since 2002.

David, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?

David Lindahl: Thanks, Ash. Everything’s great. How are you?

Ash Patel: Wonderful. Before we get started, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you’re focused on now?

David Lindahl: We’re still doing a lot of multifamily; we’ve already controlled over 9000 units through the years; right now we’re in this one-off market, and we’re waiting for this market to change, so we can start going back into the emerging markets. Like everybody else, we’re still waiting to see which ones are going to emerge first. We have our ideas, but we have our signals as well. And I like retail, and I also like office, especially now where COVID has ravaged it. There’s some good opportunities there.

Ash Patel: Tell me more about the emerging markets – which ones recover first [unintelligible [00:01:57].09] to pop up?

David Lindahl: Well, emerging markets are the markets that have the fastest appreciation. Multifamily properties- we make our money in appreciation, and we realize life changes through the cash flow that we get from buying them. So we’re looking for markets that are appreciating faster, so we can create more wealth and value faster. And in doing that, we’re looking for markets that have a year-over-year job growth of 2% or more, year-over-year household formation of 2% or more. That’s been my MO for years. And then as I got good at it, I started realizing that—I look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and I get the growth rates for these markets, and I started looking at markets that were in a down phase and then had started the job growth, they started to rise about 0.75%. And I thought, “Well, if I can get in earlier than the 2%,” because I know a lot of national investors look at that 2% year over year for both of those statistics, “so if I can get it in just under 1%, but with the right combination of things happening at the Economic Development Committee, then I’m in earlier than everybody else, and I’m getting better deals, faster and with less competition.”

So what I’ll do is I’ll look at primary or secondary markets, sometimes tertiary markets, but in a new trend or new cycle going up, primary or secondary. And If I see the 1% year over year job growth, then I call over to the Economic Development Committee of that particular area and I ask some key questions like, “What are you doing to bring in the jobs?” And they’re typically doing one of four things; they’re either giving away free money in terms of rents, they’re giving away free land for companies to come build on, they’re giving away low-interest loans for people to come in and build their companies, or they’re giving away tax abatements. So those are the key typical incentives that bring companies into new markets, and gets them to move from where they are. So if they’re doing one of those things, great. If they’re doing a combination of those things, even better. So we listened to that.

And then the next most important question is, what do you think of the leadership? How’s the leadership of your community? Is it good? Is it bad? Are you indifferent? And we want to hear, “Oh, it’s strong, it’s good, it’s new, it’s fresh, they’ve got these great ideas, they’re really looking to move the city in a new direction.” That’s what we’re looking for. If we can get all those things together, now we’ve got a market that we place in that bracket that says, “Look at this market.” As we’re looking at other markets and putting more and more in those buckets, we try to pick the best one in the bucket. But that’s how they get into the bucket.

Ash Patel: Are you at the county level or the city level when you speak with economic development committees?

David Lindahl: It’s typically the city level, going to primary-secondary cities.

Ash Patel: Okay. And then retail and office – tell me more.

David Lindahl: So in retail and office, the opportunity now in the space is because it got ravaged because of COVID and nobody was working, there’s a dichotomy right now, especially with office, in the sense that, yes, they think that a lot more people are going to be working from home, so therefore they’re not going to need the space, but at the same time, you’ve got a lot more people that are maybe reluctant to go into an office that has a lot of people there. So they’re going to need more space per person, which is going to be more than it used to be.

So in terms of the office space, we’re looking at the types of companies that are in that space when they’re doing a lease audit to determine whether or not this is a type of company that’s going to need space in the future or will be able to work from home. We’re taking it through a lease audit, we’re determining whether or not they’re actually going to renew or they have enough people working from that. And that lease audit is not just a lease audit, it’s an interview with all of the tenants as well.

On the retail side, we’ve been doing this even before COVID, is we’re looking for retail spaces that you can’t buy things on the internet… Certainly anchored by a grocery, because people, they’re buying groceries off of the internet, but they’re getting in from those anchor tenants, like Whole Foods or Kroger’s or all that stuff. So a good anchor, and then we’re looking for rentals, yoga, things that you cannot buy on the internet as tenants. But when you get that combination, you’ve got a good retail space. We actually just sold the retail space during COVID and got our investors a 3x on their money in 2.5 years.

Ash Patel: That’s a win.

David Lindahl: That was a big win. Yeah. [unintelligible [00:05:56].24] about that.

Ash Patel: Yeah. When you look at office buildings, the lease audit, is that part of your due diligence?

David Lindahl: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Ash Patel: And then, is there a particular type of office building that you’re looking at? High rise, mid-rise, low rise in an office park setting, standalone suburban?

David Lindahl: Right now, we’re focused on single-storey office complexes that have their own entrances; those are the things that are the safer investments in this particular space. We’ve got a nice one down in Charlotte, on the South side of the city. So when they have their own entrances, people don’t have to congregate in the hallways, in the elevators. So that’s really what the focus is on right now for office.

Ash Patel: But is it—

David Lindahl: There is also the story, too – we’re looking at actually a $60 million deal in Denver. It is the primary spot in the Denver sub-market; it’s got a great location, it’s got a great story, it’s got great tenants. So even though it doesn’t fit the bill of a single-storey office building and the people have to go up and down with the elevators and all that, it still has a good story behind it. So in real estate, we look at the bones and when we look at the story.

Ash Patel: What’s the story behind that one?

David Lindahl: It’s the tenants, it’s the quality of the tenants and the fact that employees are either returning post-COVID, and we’re not completely post-COVID yet, or the fact that they’re going to keep that space moving forward.

Ash Patel: If you look at a giant office park in a suburban area, 15-20, 6-7 storey office buildings, most of them are vacant or underleased. Is there anything attractive about those, if you can get them at the right price?

David Lindahl: No.

Ash Patel: Just stay away.

David Lindahl: That’s not my specialty. I’ve owned 9000 multifamily units, probably a million square feet in office. So that’s not what we’re going after; primarily it’s office. If that was my forte, I may find some sort of a formula that could make those work. But if we talk about 1,000 unit multifamily portfolio, I could give you some ideas of what I’m looking for there.

Ash Patel: Alright, let’s talk about multifamily. Where are you buying now?

David Lindahl: Right now, we’re looking at spots like Las Vegas, we’re looking at Orlando… And these are markets where the tourists stopped coming, they lost their jobs. But now people are moving again, the jobs are coming back in and we’re getting some good deals there.

Ash Patel: You achieved a 3x return for your investors in a very short time in retail. Why not chase more retail, versus multifamily?

David Lindahl: We still chase retail. Those deals aren’t out there every day, but we’re looking. I’ve got a great partner, he used to work for one of the larger companies that take over distressed properties for the commercial lenders. He’s done over $50 billion in commercial. He’s got teams all over the different markets throughout the US so he’s constantly looking for deals and bringing them together and when they’re right we do them.

Break: [08:37] to [10:38]

Ash Patel: Would you stray from a grocery anchor to a non-anchor strip mall in a suburban area that still has service-related businesses? Or is your criteria really strict on that?

David Lindahl: It’s service-related businesses, that’s what we’re looking for. We don’t really need that anchor.

Ash Patel: Okay.

David Lindahl: I have a tenant base that we’re looking for.

Ash Patel: Okay. And you’ve got a long career in teaching. How did that get started?

David Lindahl: Well, I started back in 1996. I left a rock and roll band, I started a landscaping company, I wanted a better life. I was tired of being broke; I got Carleton Sheets’ course, How to Buy Real Estate. I didn’t do anything with the first time I got it, but they had the new and improved edition and I got that.

And one of the things he said in there was, “Go to your local real estate investment group and notice that there are people that look like you, talk like you, act like you and were broke just like you, but now they’re doing real estate and they’re doing well. And if they can do it, you can do it.” And I did, and I was like, “Wow, if they can do it, I can do it too.”

And then I saw an interview with Harry Helmsley from New York City who started buying and selling multifamily properties, started with nothing, started buying new multifamily properties, and ended up owning the Empire State Building. And the biographer said, “Harry, what is it about apartment buildings that got you going?” Harry said, “I always liked the idea that a group of people would pull their money together and give it to me to pay my mortgage off. To pay the mortgage every month, to pay for maintenance guys to swing hammers, take out trash, clean toilets, to pay for management companies to take the tenants’ phone calls and collect their rents. And they give me so much money that at the end of the month, I could pay all those people and then have extra money left over for me that I can reinvest, put into a savings account, and just go out and have a bunch of fun with.” And I thought, “Man, if that’s true, I want in.”

And I come to find out, there was nobody out there teaching how to do this at the time. But there were a couple of guys in my group that were doing it, they were very successful. Everybody else told me, like my father, that tenants are going to trash your place and they’re not going to pay rent, you’re going to get foreclosed on.

So I was nervous, but I was talking to these guys, I started bird-dogging for them and I started realizing what a good deal was, but I was afraid to buy my first good deal. And then nine months later, I did. Within three months, I had three more. Within six, I had nine. Within the first year, I had 11 deals. Within the first three years, I had 40. But that was all 3-6 unit properties. I was afraid to buy anything bigger.

Then I started learning about emerging markets, about second year rent—I was a student—and realized that I was going to lose my equity if I didn’t need to put it in cash or move it to another market that was emerging. And I learned about job growth and household formations and all that. I learned about Montgomery, Alabama, that was my first market. They were building IKEA plant, bringing 5000 new jobs there. Every job that comes in has a multiplier effect in every market; some bigger, some smaller, Montgomery was smaller. It was a multiplier of three. I’ve been in Huntsville, Alabama for years. It has a multiplier of 11 to service people; the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker that come in after that.

So I go in Montgomery, abd the thing that Montgomery had is they had a barrier to entry. It’s surrounded by flood plains; supply was going to remain the same, demand was going to go up at a multiplier of three, 20,000 new jobs coming into this marketplace – boom, that market took off. So I went from Montgomery, bought a couple of deals there, to Jackson, Mississippi. I went from a 40 unit, an 80 unit to a 350 unit. Started buying in Huntsville and then I was in Texarkana, Texas.

And to answer your question, In Texarkana, Texas, I was sitting there at a restaurant bar, eating and the guy next to me says, “I can tell you’re not from around here without accent.” And I said, “Nope, I’m from Boston.” He says, “What are you doing in Texarkana?” I said, “Oh, I’m buying real estate, multifamily.” He said, “Oh, why here?” And I started explaining to him about job growth and household formations and all that. And he said, “I’m a writer for Kiplinger’s. Can I do an article on you?” I said, “Yes.” Because I was in a rock and roll band for six years, and I created quite a reputation for myself. My father kept telling me, “You invest in real estate, you’re going down, Dave. You’re going down.” So much so that I was afraid to do it. I had to stop talking to him about it, and I would have dinner with him every Monday night. But I knew my father read Kiplinger’s. And when this guy said he was from Kiplinger’s magazine and he wanted to put me in the magazine, I was like, “Oh, this is going to be great.” And I actually handed that magazine to my father and I said, “Hey, take a look at page 24, dad.” And his jaw just dropped.

So a month later, I got a call from Wiley’s from New York and they said, “Hey, we read the article on Kiplinger’s. Would you like to write a book about that?” So I wrote Emerging Real Estate Markets. I was so busy at the time, I really didn’t have time to do it. I’m a morning person, I usually wake up at [5:00]. I decided I would wake up at [4:00], do an hour of typing. It took me four months to write that book. That became number one for two years, and then they asked me to write a second one Multifamily Millions, I did, that was number one for a long time; still an essential book for anybody in multifamily. And from there, so many people from those books started calling and saying, “Can you teach me? Can you teach me?” And I was like, “Okay.” I started teaching business. That’s how I started.

Ash Patel: Great story. What kind of returns are you seeing now in multifamily?

David Lindahl: Well, it all depends on the value-adds that you get. We always teach to buy properties in an emerging market with a value-add, so therefore you can force the appreciation on the market, but also ride the appreciation wave that the emerging market has, too.

So I can tell you what I see other people getting, and they’re getting returns that are unrealistically low. And I see people that are working just for fees instead of splitting revenues with their investors. And it’s very concerning, because these markets change; it’s a really tight market right now, there’s a lot of competition for deals, and when you start going that low on your returns, it’s not a good thing. I can tell you what I typically go for, and that’s a capitalization rate of 8+, a cash on cash return of 12+ and a debt coverage ratio of 1.6. And what that does – that’s a conservative formula but it allows me to give my investors an 8+ cash on cash return, and I know that’s what they’re looking for to get into my deals. And I can at least carve out 25% of that deal for me; I can get the acquisition fee, I can get the 25% of the cash flow and 25% of the disposition fee, not putting any of my own money in. The better those ratios or the better the value-add—and when I say value-add, it’s like a small problem with the property; maybe the rents are low, maybe the occupancy is low, maybe the expenses are a little bit higher, the three top value-adds. And so we go in there and we fix those, so we get extra bump on those. So with better numbers, I can get a better ratio of my equity in the deals.

I was going to say—

Ash Patel: Do you also renovate the properties as well?

David Lindahl: Do we renovate? Yeah. But let me just finish that point. So people, especially students or other investors will say to me, “We’re in a really tight market, have you changed your ratios?” I’m like, “No, we never change our ratios.” It’s like, “Well, how are you getting deals?” You get your deals from your relationships that you built, because as you know, this is a relationship business. The better your relationships, the better quality deals you’re going to get. And most of the deals you get are typically pocket deals. And maybe you’re not the only one they give that pocket deal to, but if you’re one of three or four or five, at least you’re getting an opportunity to see these deals before other people do. So build the relationships, build the relationships, build the relationships. I’m sorry, what was your question?

Ash Patel: No, you answered it, it’s about renovations.

David Lindahl: Let me go a little bit deeper on that one.

Ash Patel: Yeah.

David Lindahl: So with value-adds, we’re looking to do—just like renovations on the property, we like to buy properties that are momentum plays, properties that cash flow at closing. Now, if we’re looking to do a renovation on a property and change a tenant profile, we’re typically buying properties below 85% equilibrium, and those properties are called repositionings. So once they drop below 85%—it’s called equilibrium because you cannot get good conventional financing below 85%. You’ve got to go for bridge or mezzanine.

So typically, this property has a problem, and it’s got a stigma now; it’s gone below 85%, the tenants aren’t happy, something—there’s a problem there, you need to come in and fix the problem… Well, the first question is, can I fix this problem? Can I identify the problem? The second question is, can I fix this problem? And if those two are yes, then you figure out how fast you can get to break even, what you’re going to need to do. Typically, you need to change a tenant profile and you need to do some rehabs on the property.

The repositionings are the riskiest types of deals you can do, but they can be the most profitable type of deal you can do if you do them right.

Ash Patel: Do you have different profiles of investors that want to invest in multifamily, versus retail, hotels, office?

David Lindahl: Yes. I can answer that question in a couple of different ways. First of all, I’ve got investors that only want to invest in multifamily or only want to invest in hotel or only want to invest in assisted living. And I also have investors that are investing in those asset classes that have different needs. Some of them don’t need cash flow right now, they don’t want it because of taxes. Some of them don’t need the equity right now, they need the cash flow. So basically, we talk to the investors, we find out what their needs are and then we make different structures inside of the deals to meet the investor needs.

Ash Patel: On the same deal, you can have multiple levels of investors, where some get cash flow, some are in it for the long term?

David Lindahl: Yes.

Ash Patel: Interesting. That’s great. Do you do any education to your investors about the tax benefits? Because I know a lot of people out there want to get a return on their money, but they don’t always understand all the benefits about investing in real estate and those negative K-1’s.

David Lindahl: You know what? That’s a good point. We don’t teach you that on Multifamily Millions Bootcamp, but we do have another event called Private Money. In that, we talk about how to structure your deals. So I guess we covered it in the deal structuring section.

Ash Patel: So that’s for the actual syndicator. What about for the investor?

David Lindahl: Oh, for the investor? Like if you or I were going to buy a property all by ourselves?

Ash Patel: If I was going to invest with you, David, would you tell me about the tax benefits of investing in real estate?

David Lindahl: Yes, I primarily focus on depreciation, the benefits that you’re going to get from depreciation; we’ll both share in the depreciation of the property and that’s a big tax benefit.

Ash Patel: And do most people understand that?

David Lindahl: People that have been in the game do, the newer people may not, but it’s not a difficult concept to teach.

Ash Patel: Okay. I asked that because a lot of these doctors that I know, they’re all in for the returns, but they don’t understand what they can do with these negative K-1s, especially if the spouse doesn’t work or if they don’t work, and they can claim real estate tax professional status. It’s a game-changer for somebody that can utilize that.

David Lindahl: Yeah, well they changed those laws in the Tax Reform Act, I think, of 1986, because all of those doctors were buying into real estate investments that weren’t making any money, so they could take all the tax benefits. And then they changed the rules and you can still do that, you just can’t do it to that extent. But investing in real estate is the primary equalizer when you have income coming in from other sources.

Break: [20:21] to [23:24]

Ash Patel: David, is there an example that you’ve lost money on? And what was a hard lesson learned on that?

David Lindahl: Yeah, I bought a 400 unit property in Huntsville. That was my first deal in Huntsville. It was my fifth deal in emerging markets. And I had done 800 smaller deals prior to that, and I thought, “Well, this is a 400 unit rehab.” I was buying it at 43% occupancy and I thought, “This won’t be difficult.” It gave me a couple years to make $3 million or $4 million profit. And boy, I didn’t know what I didn’t know there. First of all, I didn’t know that 43% occupancy meant that only about 30% of the people were actually paying. Another big factor that I didn’t know was that of those 30%, it was going to drop to another 20% before it was going to start going back up again. And then in terms of the rehab and how to do it, and the progression of it and that size property, I didn’t know that. That was a six-year project and I broke even; that sucked, as we say up here in New England.

Ash Patel: Did you just anticipate that occupancy would go up and rents would go up in your pro forma?

David Lindahl: It wasn’t so much the rents, I just assumed that I was going to be able to start banging up this rehab, and then I was going to be filling those units. And as I filled those units – yes, the rents would be increasing as well.

Ash Patel: That had to have been a hard long six years.

David Lindahl: Oh, my god… It was 2016-2012. Yep. I’m so glad that project is behind me.

Ash Patel: David, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?

David Lindahl: The best real estate investing advice ever would be go bigger, faster. But no, the best real estate advice I would give is to start where you’re comfortable, because the first deal is always the hardest. And if you start going out thinking, “Oh, I’m going to buy 100 unit deal and I’m going to make a million dollars,” and your subconscious isn’t ready for that, you won’t do that deal. Your subconscious is going to sabotage you, you’ll never get started.

So from teaching for the last 19 years, I’ve realized that to teach, it doesn’t matter where you get started, get started where you’re comfortable, and then after that, you’ll just blossom, you’ll take off.

Ash Patel: And is it okay for somebody to start with a 100-unit property?

David Lindahl: Oh yeah, as long as you’re educated and you have that mindset. We’ve had so many people come on to Multifamily Millions Bootcamp—it reminds me of Mike Flaherty, in 2009; he came to us and he’d just declared bankruptcy from the 2008 financial crisis, had just gotten married, had a baby on the way, wasn’t sure what he was going to do, came to the bootcamp, went out and did his first deal, it was 240 units. But he got $311,000 at the closing through a repair allowance and an acquisition fee, which he learned at the bootcamp… And then he split $4,000 a month cash flow. So he had reset himself to move forward. And I mentioned his name, because now in 2021, he’s going to come to our Ultimate Partner event and tell everybody how he did a billion dollars in transactions during that timeframe.

Ash Patel: That is great. So the people that go through the Multifamily Bootcamp, what is one trait that will determine whether they succeed or not?

David Lindahl: It’s their ability to set their mind up properly. Most people have limiting beliefs, most people are their own self sabotages, and this is one of the things we teach at the event, is you’ve got to set your mind up before you set your business up. You set your mind up for success, your business will be a success.

Ash Patel: And what is the trait most likely to lead to people not pulling the trigger and moving forward?

David Lindahl: It’s fear. Everybody has limiting beliefs, usually from their childhood. So what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to learn how to identify those limiting beliefs and then break through them. There’s a great book out there called The power of Your Subconscious Mind by Murphy; it’s an awesome book, if anybody wants to control your mind instead of your mind control you. So that’s it. That’s the basis of it.

And then if you want to talk about what’s the most important trait once leaving bootcamp or being in bootcamp, it’s underwriting. You have to understand what a good deal looks like. Because if you don’t; number one, you’ll get into a bad deal and that won’t be great, because you could get kicked out of the game; number one. Number two, if you bring that deal to investors and the investors give you money for the deal, the deal doesn’t work out because you didn’t underwrite it properly, that’s no good. And number three, if you now understand how to do the larger deals and you have the mindset to do larger deals, but right now you’re broke and you don’t qualify to do those and you need a sponsor, you go to the sponsor with bad underwriting, they’re going to look at you like, “Alright, great. Get out of here and don’t come back.”

Ash Patel: David, how does somebody go about finding investors if they don’t have a lot of high net worth friends?

David Lindahl: Well, you can target business groups, business associations; these people meet, and the whole idea is to help each other, grow each other’s businesses and identify different opportunities. But one of the things I discovered is, I used to ask for money at the very beginning and then realized that asking for money – I hated that, I’m an introvert. And then I’ve realized that you don’t ask for money, you just talk about the opportunities that are out there; you know, what you do. And this is in social situations and in those business groups; you just wait for this one question and that is, what do you do? And when they say, “What do you do?” You say, “Oh, I invest in emerging real estate markets” And they’re like, “What?”

Ash Patel: “Tell me more.”

David Lindahl: Yeah, they ask you to explain it. And if they’re not interested, they’ll opt-out and ask you other questions. And if they are interested, they’ll start giving you their objections to investing in it, and to see how you handle those objections. And if you handle the objections and they’re still interested, and they take you down this path, they will actually tell you, “Hey, if you get another deal, I’d be interested in being an investor. Do you take investors?” They actually close themselves. Instead of giving them a spiel – you give a spiel when you’re in the front of a room, but when you’re one on one with somebody, let them ask you the question. Wait for that softball question, “What do you do?” And then let them close themselves.

Ash Patel: That is great advice. David, are you ready for the Lightning Round?

David Lindahl: Yeah.

Ash Patel: Let’s do it. David, what’s the best ever book you recently read?

David Lindahl: Joe Dispenza, Superhuman.

Ash Patel: And what was your big takeaway from that book?

David Lindahl: That there’s a quantum field out there; if you meditate deep enough and you give out the right vibrations, that you can have whatever you want in life.

Ash Patel: What’s the best ever way you like to give back?

David Lindahl: We give back in so many different ways. I grew up broke and poor and I wanted to give back to my family, and we were able to do that. And now we’re giving back to wounded warriors. We send [unintelligible [00:29:06].15] constantly over to the Sudan so they can have clean drinking water. I like giving back silently actually; the best way of giving back for me is giving to somebody and nobody knowing about it, but yet helping somebody out dramatically.

Ash Patel: And David, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?

David Lindahl: Well, two ways. We’ve got a big event coming up, Ultimate Partnering. You can go to ultimatepartnering.com. It’s October 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If you’re a multifamily investor, this is where you’ll find 1000-1,500 people in a room, you’ll find money partners there, business partners there. We’ve had so many great stories come out of how people found each other and do an X amount of deals. We had one group, they’re now called the Quadro Group, you may have interviewed them before but they met at the last Ultimate Partner event in 2019 – we didn’t have one last year – and have since done 14 deals during COVID. Incredible. They put the right team together and they all met there at that particular event. So the education is great, but it’s really all about the networking.

And then number two, you can certainly go to rementor.com. We have a five video mini-course you could get emailed on and then we’ll send you our onboarding information and go from there.

Ash Patel: David, thank you for being on the show today and sharing your experience from wanting to be a rock star way back when, to going into landscaping. And then the Carlton Sheets course, readjusting your mind, and all the success that you’ve achieved now, teaching us about emerging markets as well. So thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and lessons learned.

Best Ever listeners —

David Lindahl: [unintelligible [00:30:30].19] they’ll fantasize about being a rock star.

Ash Patel: Make it happen. Are you still playing?

David Lindahl: Yeah, I play the guitar.

Ash Patel: Awesome.

David Lindahl: Yeah.

Ash Patel: Well, David, thank you again. Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us and have a best ever day.

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