JF2541: 3 Main Hurdles of Passive Investing Funds with Lisa Hylton
Although she came into real estate with an accounting background, Lisa Hylton’s first investment actually lost money. She decided to invest in education instead, and that’s when she was introduced to syndicating. Today, she’s talking about industrial vs. multifamily, what qualifications she looks for in an operator, and doing her due diligence before joining a syndication.
Lisa Hylton Real Estate Background:
- Full-time real estate investor
- 10 years real estate investing experience
- Passively invested in 5 deals to date
- GP of a fund that invested in 250 units in Atlanta in 2019
- Portfolio includes 2 multifamily investments of approximately 500 doors, 2 multifamily investments that are currently going full cycle of 600 units and 250 units, and 1 industrial asset
- Based in Los Angeles, CA
- Say hi to her at: www.lisahylton.com
- Best Ever Book: The Hands-Off Investor
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Ash Patel: Hello, Best Ever listeners. Welcome to the Best Real Estate Investing Advice Ever Show. I’m Ash Patel, and I’m with our guest today, Lisa Hylton. Lisa is joining us from Los Angeles, California. She’s a full-time real estate investor and has 10 years of experience. She has passively invested in five deals to date, and is also a GP in a fund.
Lisa, thank you for joining us, and how are you today?
Lisa Hylton: I’m doing good. How are you?
Ash Patel: Wonderful. Thank you. Before we get started, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what you’re focused on now?
Lisa Hylton: Yes, so my background is accounting. So I went to school for accounting, became a certified public accountant, spent 10 years in public accounting in audit, auditing financial services companies, primarily all types of funds. So private equity, hedge funds, the whole nine yards. Four and a half years as a controller on private equity real estate funds at a large investment manager here in the Los Angeles area. During that time, I learned about real estate syndications and made my first investment, which then turned into five investments, and then decided I wanted to build a real estate syndication business… So I had built a runway for myself financially and decided this is as good a time as ever to take the plunge into entrepreneurship and to build. So that’s where I’m at today.
Ash Patel: Incredible amount of financial background. Wow. Okay, so what was your first investment to real estate?
Lisa Hylton: My first investment was buying a townhouse in the Cayman Islands, where I’m from. I was in my early 20s; I bought a two-and-a-half bath townhouse. I had bought it because I loved it, and everyone around me was, “Oh, you need to buy something”, the pressure of homeownership. So I caved and I purchased, because I loved it. But then with the intention of renting it out; I rented it out. And yeah, it broke even the first year, I lost money every single year for six years. During that time, I was an in-country landlord for the first year, and out of state landlord for the rest of the whole period… Because I was in Cayman for four years after college, working with the same company who I then left to work with in Boston for four years, and then LA for another two years with that company. So about a year after I moved to LA, I decided to sell it. After getting a bill in the email for about over $1,000, I was like, “No way, this has gots to go.” So yeah.
Ash Patel: Wait—sorry to cut you off. Hold on.
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: Your financial background,—
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: —and you lost money on this deal.
Lisa Hylton: That’s right. That’s right.
Ash Patel: Explain that to me. This doesn’t add up.
Lisa Hylton: Yes. I’m glad you say that, because I meet investors all the time, who only think about rent, and they don’t remember all of the expenses. So for me, the rent would come in, I know I had mortgage, but I also had strata on this, which is HOA fees. So there were HOA fees and all kinds of other expenses. So at the end of the day, as I said, I broke even the first year, and then lost money every single year after that. So I definitely learned a lot of lessons. And as a result, when I sold that property it was, “There’s no way I’m doing real estate ever again.” So yeah.
Ash Patel: So this game is a lot harder than it seems, isn’t it?
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: And then when you sold it, did you not get some appreciation on the property?
Lisa Hylton: Well, actually, not really, because at the time that I sold it — I think maybe when I went into the property, I purchased it for too much. That’s what I think.
Ash Patel: Okay.
Lisa Hylton: And then the market situations were just not an ideal time, but I was ready to be out, and I just needed enough money to pay my mortgage and not have to deal with it again.
Ash Patel: Alright, so now you’ve got me jaded on real estate. Are we diving back into it or are we done with it?
Lisa Hylton: So I said, “No more real estate”, right?
Ash Patel: Yeah, no more.
Lisa Hylton: And I’d say the universe has a sense of humor, because a year later, I took a job working as a controller on private equity real estate funds and I said, “Oh, clearly people can make money investing real estate. You need to know what you’re doing though.” So that’s when I began the education process. That was around 2016. And that’s when I began the education process; listening to lots of podcasts, BiggerPockets, the whole nine yards, this podcast include. And just getting out there, learning a lot. I started with reading books. I started with wanting to buy a duplex or a triplex here in Los Angeles. When I saw the price tags of one point something million dollars for a duplex, I said, “Yeah, probably not.” And then on top of that, those kinds of duplexes even require additional money to be pumped in after you buy it. I said, “Yeah, that’s not going to work for me.”
So I then looked at turnkeys out of state, and was looking at that for a while, but given my earlier experience, I was definitely way more conservative when it came to the numbers. I just couldn’t pull the trigger, so I went to Detroit, Alabama, a couple of different cities, looking for properties, but just wasn’t convicted.
And then about a year or so later, I discovered real estate syndication, just randomly. I wasn’t really looking for it. And I just met someone who was doing it, and I was like, “Oh, wow, this is really interesting.” It made me think about my job, because I was like, “Oh, this is like what we do, but this is for regular people, as opposed to what we do is for large institutional investors.” So that’s how I got started.
Ash Patel: How many years ago was this?
Lisa Hylton: Fall of 2018 is when I met the person, and in the winter 2019 is when I got introduced to real estate syndications.
Ash Patel: And what was your introduction to syndications?
Lisa Hylton: It just so happened I was doing this landmark program, and I met a woman who was there. She was a participant, and we were just talking, and the program ended in the spring of 2019. And someone else said, “Hey, let’s exchange business cards.” So we did, and then I saw on her business card that she was a real estate investor. And I was like, “Oh, my goodness, I’ve been interested in investing, but all the turnkey and all this stuff, and I just couldn’t pull the trigger.” She goes, “Yeah, let’s connect.” And I actually didn’t connect with her until a month later, maybe two months later. I was cleaning out my bag. I was on a staycation here in LA, and I saw her card and I was like, “Oh my goodness, I never called her.” So I finally called her, and that’s how she then told me, “This is what I do.” And I go, “Oh.” And she had an opportunity available, and we were like, “Okay, yeah, let’s talk about it”, and that’s how I got started investing.
Ash Patel: Good. And what was it, opportunity? Was it multifamily?
Lisa Hylton: Yes, that was a multifamily opportunity in Atlanta, 600 units. So yes.
Ash Patel: And you’re skeptical at this point on real estate investment… So I would imagine, you dove into the numbers and really did your due diligence. What was that like?
Lisa Hylton: Yeah. That was like, one, looking at the market. So getting a look at where is this asset? Secondly, getting a hang of who is running the asset. So who are the asset managers? What are their roles? What is their experience and track record? So I looked it up online, to see, “Okay, have they done this stuff before?” to get comfortable. And then once I was comfortable with one, the location, which I liked Atlanta as a city in terms of job growth, population growth, shows strong fundamentals, and where specifically this property was located, which was northeast Atlanta, I felt very comfortable based on what I saw in terms of population in that area, as well as income level of that neighborhood. And I got comfortable with the sponsor themselves.
I then looked at the returns, to sort of see, okay, is this in alignment with how I would want my money to be growing? Do I feel that the way in which the deal is structured, they’re in alignment with me as an investor? Is there a preferred return? And how are the splits? And once I looked at that and I felt comfortable, I said, “Okay, I’m willing to try and take a risk at making this investment.” So yeah.
Ash Patel: And Lisa, what were the projected returns on that deal?
Lisa Hylton: I believe the projected returns was maybe an IRR somewhere about maybe 15% or 16%, somewhere there, and an equity multiple of maybe about 1.5 or 1.6.
Ash Patel: And how has that investment panned out?
Lisa Hylton: The investment has actually gone full cycle and they have ended up selling it. So that investment sold earlier this year. And in terms of performance, it was an asset that was a Class C, even though the neighborhood itself was a fairly decent neighborhood. So that particular asset didn’t perform as per the projected returns, but they felt that, okay, given what was going on with COVID – so it was definitely impacted by COVID in terms of tenants not being able to pay their rents and then them not being able to really fulfill the business plan as they anticipated. So once they saw that, they were like, “Okay, we’re going to go ahead and sell this asset.” So they’ve sold it; I believe it’s about 30% greater than the purchase price. And then in terms of returns, I believe that it was projected to be about, I think 1.2 or so. So it was definitely lower than what was anticipated.
Ash Patel: So your IRR might have been around 10 to 12?
Lisa Hylton: I think it was about 10-12 percent or 13% IRR.
Ash Patel: Okay. And in your book, is that a win?
Lisa Hylton: In my book, I think that they did the right thing. Yes, I would like the return to be better. So in the end, I think overall, it is a win, because they were willing to go with what was going on in the market. And even though they had their business plan, they sort of said, “Okay, listen, this is what’s going on in the market.” And as an accountant, I could look at the quarterly reports that they were sending and I could see that the NOI is dropping each quarter that they’re sending this. So I could see that it would be beneficial for them to get out, so people can get their money back with whatever friends is going to come back, and then we can move on. So yeah.
Ash Patel: So Lisa, I would imagine you were pretty nervous when you saw those quarterly reports. How was the communication from the syndicator?
Lisa Hylton: They were pretty good in terms of communication. So they communicated on a quarterly basis, the rent rolls as well as the P&L. They’re professionally done, so you can see everything very clearly. And then on a monthly basis, they’re giving you updates that sort of say, “Hey, this is what’s going on with the property.” So before the sale, they were at least letting you know, “Okay, yeah, the business plan is as such,” and also, during 2020, they suspended distributions, so you also knew that, “Okay, yeah, this is what’s going on, and this is a reason why they’re choosing to suspend distributions.”
Ash Patel: And did you have flashbacks from your Cayman Island investment? …thinking, “Oh, no, not another one!”
Lisa Hylton: No, not really, because like, I felt that when you invest in real estate, you know that you’re taking a risk. And I think that the biggest piece is being able to get your money back. And at least in this case, this one, at least that has fulfilled out to be good. All the other deals I’ve invested in to date have performed fairly well, and I have invested in another deal in the Atlanta area, and that one has performed very strongly. But it’s a different class.
Ash Patel: Okay, what was your next investment after this?
Lisa Hylton: My next investment was also in Atlanta. It was a 250 unit apartment building. So I did—
Ash Patel: The same operator?
Lisa Hylton: No, a different operator. So 150 units in Gainesville, and 100 units in Norcross, in Atlanta. And this particular asset is also selling. The sale is going through at the end of this month, so money is supposed to be coming back sometime in July.
Ash Patel: And what you know now about operators, would you have done something different on that very first syndication? Would you have still invested with that person or that entity?
Lisa Hylton: Hmm, that’s a great question. I think that what I know now, one of the things that I do differently these days is I’m a little bit more skeptical in terms of asset class. So yes, that operator did have track record and the whole nine yards, but I prefer to play in the B area and less in the C area, personally. I do recognize that C has capability for higher returns, but I prefer the Bs.
Ash Patel: And in that C property, was part of their business plan to do renovations and increase rents?
Lisa Hylton: Yes,
Ash Patel: Were they able to do those renovations?
Lisa Hylton: Not completely. No, because of COVID.
Ash Patel: Okay. So your next investment, what were the numbers like?
Lisa Hylton: So as we’re getting ready to sell this particular one now, going in, the anticipated IRR is around 16%. And the projected IRR currently, as we are now exiting, is around 25 percent-ish.
Ash Patel: Alright. Positive momentum.
Lisa Hylton: So yeah, so this one’s way stronger. And in terms of cash flow, they’ve paid all through COVID, and it was an 8% preferred return, so they’ve hit that through and through every single year, and then now selling the property. So yeah, very strong. This one’s very strong.
Ash Patel: That’s a win. Helps make up for the previous loss. Good.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ash Patel: And then what came after that?
Lisa Hylton: After that, I then invested in an industrial property in Phoenix, out in Arizona. So this is a sale lease buyback. Single tenant, so there is a risk there, but the tenant is someone who has a very long business record in terms of being in business, as well as the products that they produce; they produce for a variety of different types of businesses. So I felt very comfortable there. And then the people who are actually setting up the sale lease buybacks – this is what they singly focus on. So they only do sale lease buybacks as their business. So yeah.
Ash Patel: And what is their projected numbers on that industrial deal?
Lisa Hylton: These ones are a bit stronger, and the preferred return is also an 8%. But the cash flows have been 9-10 percent a year so far. And then in terms of return, I believe it’s also 16%, like somewhere in that area as well, in terms of IRR.
Ash Patel: Okay. And what is the due diligence required for an industrial investment versus a multifamily?
Lisa Hylton: So a little bit different. Two things, I would prefer to stay from a passive investor’s perspective, as opposed to being an operator of industrial, because I’m not an operator of industrial. So from a passive investor looking at industrial property versus a multifamily property – so industrial property, one of the first things that I look at is similar to multifamily, I’m getting comfortable with where the asset is located, and then secondly, the operator. So understanding what their track record is in this type of investment strategy, have they done this before… Understanding that, and then also understanding, “Okay, you’re doing a sale lease buyback. Can we talk about this tenant?” What is their risk profile? How long have they been in business? And what is their business? Are they just servicing one client? Are they servicing many different clients? How can they pivot? How can they provide different expertise across different clients?
So for me, that’s important, as opposed to investing in a deal where the business, the particular client that’s renting is only servicing one particular business. And that’s different from multifamily; because multifamily, obviously you have tons of different doors and different rents, and you’re looking at rent comps, expenses, that kind of stuff. So it’s a little bit different in that regard.
Ash Patel: Okay. So a sale leaseback, this entity already owned the building.
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: How many years did they operate out of that location?
Lisa Hylton: I want to say a very long time. They had been in business, I want to say, maybe 20-30 years; a very long time.
Ash Patel: Okay. So they just wanted some capital, selling their building and leasing it to the new owner is a great way to get a lump sum for them, and provides long-term rent for the new owner. Are there multiple locations for this company?
Lisa Hylton: No, this was just this location.
Ash Patel: Okay.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah.
Ash Patel: And was it a corporate signed lease?
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: Okay. So the only way they can get out of that lease is if they declare bankruptcy.
Lisa Hylton: Correct.
Ash Patel: Pretty much. Okay. So it’s kind of a guaranteed lease. Is it triple net?
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: Okay. It seems like a really safe investment.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah.
Ash Patel: Good.
Lisa Hylton: It’s fairly safe.
Ash Patel: So now you’ve gotten a taste of multifamily, as well as industrial. Are you looking to do your next deal into industrial, or what was your next deal?
Lisa Hylton: So I’ve had two other deals since then, both of them are multifamilies. The second one was in North Carolina. Also, that one was a Class A multifamily, 300 and something units, and that was in March/April-ish of 2020. It’s a Class A property, as I said before, so the projections and returns on that one is a little bit lower because of the asset class. I should say, the cash flow kicking off of it is a little bit lower. That’s what I should say. But in terms of returns, it’s a longer hold period. So that’s about seven years. That’s the longest that I’ve gone into, compared to all the multifamilies I’ve invested in prior to that, as well as since that as well.
Ash Patel: And is that an 8% preferred return as well?
Lisa Hylton: Yes—actually, no. The preferred return, I believe was about 6% or 7% on that one.
Ash Patel: Okay. Well—
Lisa Hylton: So it was a little bit lower.
Ash Patel: Coming off of your industrial, why would you settle for a lower return?
Lisa Hylton: So I think—a couple of things. I think that being able to diversify my portfolio I think is really important. So I have an asset that is generating cash flow, which is industrial and maybe some of the Class B, and specifically that other Class B asset has both cash flow and appreciation. Whereas the Class A asset is a little less on cash flow, but a little bit more on appreciation. And I also liked the fact that it was a better class of asset. So I had a C, I had a B, I wanted to get exposure to an A, understanding that the A would have less cash flow in the hold period, but potentially more in terms of appreciation on the backend; then having industrial, which didn’t really have a lot of appreciation play there, but a lot more on the cash flow side… And then months later here, my last one was here in 2021, and that one was heavy on cash flow. So the last one appreciation back to class B, and also an 8% pref, but the average projected returns each year is between 8-9, sometimes even 10% potentially, for this particular one. So just sort of diversifying my portfolio is how I sort of look at it.
Ash Patel: The Class A property – are they going to renovate that property, or is it just a buy-hold-cash flow?
Lisa Hylton: Yes, buy-hold-cash flow.
Ash Patel: Okay.
Lisa Hylton: No big renovation play there.
Ash Patel: Are all of these with different operators?
Lisa Hylton: Yes.
Ash Patel: So why would you not do the same deal with the same operator?
Lisa Hylton: I think I’m still early in the cycle; my investing cycle, my investing career. So I’m still willing to experiment and willing to meet new operators and to continue to build relationships to sort of see who—the operators I have now, I still like them, and potentially some of them I would potentially reinvest with. But I also just feel like the point at which I’m at now, I feel like it’s still very good to build relationships and get exposure to other operators. So yeah.
Ash Patel: Got it. It says that you’re a GP in a fund. Tell me about that.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah. So the 250 in Atlanta – so I had an investment with the main operator themselves. And then I also created a fund to invest in that deal as well. So myself and a couple of other people created a fund, half a million dollars to invest in the main. So that’s how that fund was sort of set up.
Ash Patel: Okay, so you’re the GP on that fund, and you raised money from others to pull into that.
Lisa Hylton: Yes. Correct.
Ash Patel: And how are you rewarded for doing that?
Lisa Hylton: What we did was we did a 95/5 split at our level. So 5% is the GP, 95% is LP. So that’s how we were rewarded.
Ash Patel: So you basically get an extra 5% of equity on the deal.
Lisa Hylton: What do you mean by extra 5%?
Ash Patel: What is the 5%? The 95 and five?
Lisa Hylton: Yeah, what we did was we raised 500k from investors and then 95% of that money is invested into the deal.
Ash Patel: Okay—
Lisa Hylton: And the 5%—
Ash Patel: And that other 5%?
Lisa Hylton: – stayed with the GP. So for things—
Ash Patel: Which is you.
Lisa Hylton: Correct.
Ash Patel: And that’s yours. That’s your commission, so to speak.
Lisa Hylton: Correct. Yes.
Ash Patel: Okay. What was it like to set up that fund? What were the hurdles you had to go through?
Lisa Hylton: The hurdles was the first time doing the PPM and subscription documents. Second hurdle is thinking about what’s the best, safest way to distribute that information to your investors. So setting it all up in DocuSign. Setting up a bank account, our initial bank decided to close during the whole period of this asset—finding a new bank, and that was challenging, but we did, we found a new bank. So yeah, I think those are the things. But you figure it out.
Ash Patel: And would you continue to grow that fund or do additional funds?
Lisa Hylton: So that particular fund is closed, it was a single asset fund. So it was an entity created only to invest in that particular deal. So now that that deal is selling, as I said before, then investors will get their money, and etc.
In terms of creating more funds – yes, I plan to create more funds to invest in more multifamily specifically, because that’s what I know more and that’s what I’ve also invested in a lot from the passive perspective as well.
Ash Patel: And that’s a great creative way to bring other people into the deal, but also be rewarded yourself.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah.
Ash Patel: So good for you for doing that.
Lisa Hylton: And this is another reason why I like to invest with different operators as well, because it gives me exposure for when I am also thinking about creating a fund. I have these relationships with these other operators where I have already risked my own money and I’ve experienced what’s to work with them and I know, okay, I trust them, because they’ve taken care of me and I feel comfortable creating a fund with them.
Ash Patel: So I’ve got to ask you this question. A lot of boxers and fighters… If they have a loss early in their career, they want a rematch. Would you ever go back to Grand Cayman and try to buy another rental property?
Lisa Hylton: Potentially. So here’s the deal. I grew up around real estate. My father was a contractor, so he built 14 apartment units, which we still have. And we also have extra land there. So there’s ability to build more. So normally, we normally buy [Crosstalk]
Ash Patel: So the answer is yes. I’m hearing a yes.
Lisa Hylton: There’s potential to build. It’s just getting all my other siblings on the same page.
Ash Patel: Got it.
Lisa Hylton: They’re not ready for that yet. So that’s why I’m like, I’m just going to go build my own business and we’ll figure that out later.
Ash Patel: Alright. Create a fund for your siblings and take down some land and build some great rental properties down there.
Lisa Hylton: There you go.
Ash Patel: So the private equity company that you do accounting for and auditing – what have you learned from that? What are some of your big takeaways?
Lisa Hylton: I think for me, big takeaways is – number one, simplicity. Complexity breeds a whole lot of additional work and expenses, costs that people don’t always think about. And that can impact returns, because when you had all these different structures to help people to come in, there’s also a lot of cost that comes with maintaining all those different structures that people don’t always think about, and the time that’s required to take care of all those structures that people don’t always think about. I would say that’s one of the things that I’ve definitely taken away from that experience.
Ash Patel: That’s a great point. Lisa, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Lisa Hylton: I would say number one, get educated. And number two, take action, even when you’re scared.
Ash Patel: Lisa, are you ready for the lightning round?
Lisa Hylton: Yes, I’m.
Ash Patel: Alright, let’s do it. Lisa, what’s the best ever book you recently read?
Lisa Hylton: Best ever book I recently read is The Hands-Off Investor.
Ash Patel: And what was your big takeaway from that book?
Lisa Hylton: Big takeaway is – same thing, education. He really lays out how to be a hands-off investor, but how you need to educate yourself and learn about the process. And it’s so important.
Ash Patel: Lisa, what is the best ever way you like to give back?
Lisa Hylton: I would say that my best way that I like to give back is having calls with other entrepreneurs and sharing pitfalls that I’ve had along the journey that can help them to keep moving in their business. So almost like business strategy with fellow entrepreneurs.
Ash Patel: And Lisa, how can the Best Ever listeners reach out to you?
Lisa Hylton: The best way to reach out to me is on my website, https://lisahylton.com/. And that’s Hylton with a Y. So it’s just like the hotel, with a Y. And then I also have a freebie, which is the same, https://lisahylton.com/ebook, just a quick ebook on Beginner’s Guide to investing in Real Estate Syndications.
Ash Patel: Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your experience today. You started out with investing in a property right in your backyard, and it didn’t go the way that you wanted it to… But you didn’t let it keep you down, you kept at it. Your first syndication return wasn’t what you expected as well, you got hit by COVID. But you’re starting to win and you’ve had a lot of wins under your belt already, and now you’re giving back and educating others. So thank you so much for sharing your experience and your story today.
Lisa Hylton: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
Ash Patel: Best Ever listeners, thank you for joining us, have a Best Ever day.
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