JF2356: Educating Students To Flip Homes With Paul Tompkins
Paul has 7 years of real estate investing experience and currently completes 30-50 fix and flips per year. He also teaches students how to fix and flip and how they can create wealth with rentals to change their life.
Paul Tompkins Real Estate Background:
- Full-time real estate investor with his wife Kelsey
- 7 years of real estate investing experience
- Portfolio consist of 30-50 flips per year and holds 5 rentals per year
- Teaches students how to flip homes and create wealth with rentals
- Based in Tallahassee, FL
- Say hi to him at: www.flippinexperts.com
- Best Ever Book: Capital Gains
Click here for more info on groundbreaker.co
Best Ever Tweet:
“Take a step. Focus on taking one step at a time. Take a step.” – Paul Tompkins
Theo Hicks: Hello, Best Ever listeners, and welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Theo Hicks, and today I’ll be speaking with Paul Tompkins. Paul, how are you doing today?
Paul Tompkins: I’m awesome, Theo. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I love you guys and I appreciate it.
Theo Hicks: Oh, well, that’s good to hear, and thank you for joining me today. A little bit about Paul. He’s a full-time real estate investor with his wife, Kelsey, with seven years of real estate investing experience. They do 30 to 50 flips each year and then hold five rentals each year as well. And Paul teaches students how to flip homes and create wealth with rentals. He is based in Tallahassee, Florida, and his website is flippinexperts.com. So Paul, do you mind telling us some more about your background and then what you’re focused on today?
Paul Tompkins: Sure, Theo. Again, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. My story is like a little bit of a crazy one, because I bounced all over the place. I didn’t mean to, it’s just kind of the way I was raised and what was in my heart. But I actually started out 18 years old, since I was an adult, and I always wanted to serve people, I always wanted to give back to the community. I didn’t know what it was, but in my heart, I always wanted to be a police officer. I saw cops and robbers, and I saw cowboys and Indians when I was young, and it was big — that’s what you watch when you’re a kid; and that kind of ages me, but whatever. That’s okay, Theo. I had always wanted to be the good guy, riding in to save people, riding in to help people when they were in need… And that just transitioned into what I wanted to do, was be a police officer. But I couldn’t do that till I was 21 years old, so I was like, “Hey, what can I do to still make an impact in the world?” And it was to serve my country. So I became a United States Marine, and I did that for four years and loved it. I was overseas three years out of the four, but it was time to go be a police officer. So at the age of 22, I started doing that, and started getting into what does it take to be in law enforcement, applying, and all that. Then I became a Florida State trooper, and did that for about nine years.
And about six or seven years in, Theo, that entrepreneur bug kicked in again. It was awesome chasing people; they gave me a gun, a super-fast car, and they’re like, “Go catch bad guys, and we’re going to pay you.” And I was like, “I’m in.” But after six years, I’m like, “I’m working this really bad part of town, and I’m always into something, literally.” My sergeant kept saying, “You keep looking for the boogeyman, one day he’s going to find you.” And that kind of always stuck with me. And I said, “You know what? He’s right.” And I’m putting a lot at risk. I’m doing shift work, which means 28 days I’m on a day shift, 28 days I’m on a night shift, the next 28 days I’m on a midnight shift. So family time – you can forget about it. Not seeing my spouse, missing son’s football games… And all this for $36,600. I was like, “There’s got to be something better.” And then my entrepreneurship started kicking back in and I’m like, “Okay, let me see what’s out there.” And I started looking at real estate, because everybody that I saw that had millions or billions of dollars had some connection to real estate. And I’m like, “Okay, that’s a clue.” And that’s all I needed.
And I started diving into real estate. And back then there weren’t online courses, and YouTube, and all these things where you can just learn from, and sit here and have a conversation like we’re having. I just had to do it grassroots way. I tried to meet with a local guy in town, and I’m like, “Hey, show me some, and you show me some.” And I’m putting it together, I’m making mistakes, but I’m still making money. And the first two years I did it, I was still a trooper full-time, 40 hours a week, still being a trooper, and on the part-time side of it, I’m making $300,000 a year in real estate. And I’m like, “Okay, after my second year,” I said, “it’s time to leave being a trooper. I got my feet wet enough, let’s do this.” And my coach at that time, the guy who was kind of showing me a little bit, he’s like, “Hey, man. Just get a little bit more training, get a little bit more flips, and get a couple of rentals, figure it out more”, and then boom, ’08 hit, and the floor came out on everybody.
Tt that time, I had never been through something like that. I didn’t know how to protect myself against something like that. I literally had 12 to 15 deals going on at a time, and they all had mortgages of about $900 on, because they were lines of credits. So I’m talking 12 to 15 grand due a month, and the floor falls out. And let’s just say I learned a lot of valuable lessons with that.
I went through that, and I got rid of those properties, and I took a break for a while… I ended up going to Afghanistan for a little bit as a police contractor and helping overseas over there for a while… And then when I came back, I was like, “Hey, what am I going to do? What do I really want to dive into?” And I had met my beautiful new wife at church, and me and her hit it off. We always had a heart for giving back to people, especially the kids. We both were very much into just serving kids.
We teamed up with a local church, we helped them buy this $7 million property, and we were going to run it as a youth center for the churches in the area. We did that for a year, and then one day the church said, “Hey, we’re going to go a different direction with this business, because it’s so expensive. It’s a lot of money. It’s not just a couple hundred thousand. You’re talking seven million or eight million dollars.” And they decided to go in a new direction in a single day. Literally, the CEO drove up… Because we had moved out of town to help start this. We had moved out of town, sold our house, everything… The CEO shows up one day out of nowhere, he says “Hey, I’m coming up tomorrow. I want to meet with you guys at nine o’clock.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s weird, because you hardly ever come up.” And we knew there might be some shifting, but they’d always guaranteed us a job, employment, we knew them… And they say “Hey, we’re done. We’re shifting, we’re moving it. We don’t need your employment anymore. Please have all your stuff off the property by five o’clock. And we need your keys.” And Theo’s, my wife just started crying. I actually can’t believe how well I held it together, but I’m talking to the CEO, and he’s asking me questions, and I’m actually helping them, which I’m under no obligation to… And my wife’s crying… I think it was probably a relief in my heart like, “Hey, this wasn’t where I was supposed to be probably anyway…” But both of us lost our jobs. 100 grand plus gone in an instant.
We think about COVID, and we think about stock market crashes and all that, and people losing jobs… We were there. And it wasn’t just my paycheck or just my wife’s paycheck. All of our money ceased in a matter of a day. I think we had 13 days left on our insurance. We couldn’t move back home. We didn’t have proof of income to go buy another house. So we were literally stuck. And I just remember saying okay, “We’re going to sit here for 30 days and we’re going to really figure this, out because we’re never going to ever, ever, ever let somebody control our destiny again.” No boss, no company. I want to control my own destiny. And during that 30 days, real estate just kept coming to mind. Real estate, real estate, real estate. I had fun doing it. My wife was in design, she understood staging, and all these different things which I wasn’t that good at. I’m a dude, so I just go in and do paint stuff, and I thought it was good. So she brought that huge aspect. And then we said, “Hey, let’s do this.” And within two weeks, we had two deals under contract, and we were already flipping again. So kind of a crazy story…
Theo Hicks: It is very crazy.
Paul Tompkins: … but it all came back to real estate. And real estate has always proven to me, and to, obviously all these millionaires and billionaires that have their money tied up in it… It’s a long term thing. It’s an asset. It’s something you can touch, you can feel. Somebody can’t take it away from you overnight. You own it, it’s yours… So that’s kind of my story in a nutshell.
Theo Hicks: When you and your wife both lost your jobs and were taking that 30-day pause to figure out what you’re going to do and then decided to do real estate, did you have funds saved up at that point? Did you have a savings accounts? Where did you start when you started this now business of the flips and rentals?
Paul Tompkins: Yeah, I think we probably had 15 or 20 grand in the bank. Nothing major. Mortgages are $1500, car payments, all that. So I knew I had a little bit in the bank… But I knew from doing it previously, when I was a trooper, that I could borrow hard money, that I could have a partnership with someone where they would fund it, and I would do the renovation, because I’ve done so many of them. I had a track history of just doing an excellent job. And every house I was doing, I was making $40,000 to $60,000 profit. So it helped me a little bit.
Theo Hicks: So you’ve got 15k to 20k in the bank, 30 days, we’re going to do fix and flips… I think you said you quickly got two deals. Tell us about that. So tell us how did you find these deals, how did you fund these deals, what was the business plan, and how much money you made?
Paul Tompkins: I don’t know if there was even time, Theo, to create a business plan; because once we said let’s go… The great thing is I had already done it before. My wife hadn’t, she had no idea. She didn’t know the first thing about real estate. She didn’t know how to flip anything. She didn’t know what a flip was. So kind of getting her up and going… She picked it up very fast. I guess you would say she’s kind of like my first student. There wasn’t really a business plan, but I knew in the past, I had borrowed hard money. So I already knew how to do that. I knew the connection that I had a couple of hours away, and money’s money. So I was able to contact my hard money lender again and say, “Hey, here’s where I’m at. Here’s what I’m doing. What do you want to do?” “Yep, I’m still lending money, Paul. You’ve already done 40 houses with me. I’m good to go, just send me the paperwork.”
So literally, getting financing started that quickly. I know normal money lenders now, you’re talking seven to 10 days, so it’s still not a very long process… But I had already had a relationship. I also reached back out to a gentleman I was doing deals with already in the Jacksonville area in Florida and said, “Are you interested in partnering up on some deals?” And he’s like, “Actually, I’m exiting with the guy I’m with right now. He wants to branch out on his own. And I have a couple million dollars. I’d love to partner up with you.” To be honest with you, it just kind of fell on our lap. We were proactive, we made the phone call… And we still do deals together today. Two hours ago we just put an offer in on a $444,000 house together. So those kinds of connections, I always keep them; they’re very valuable to me. I treat them with respect, and they always end and start.
Theo Hicks: So the hard money person, the person you reached out to, who just happened to be exiting a partnership – is he who brought the deals in, or how did you find the deals?
Paul Tompkins: No, I actually found all the deals. Some of them were auctions, some of them were on websites or county options. We had cash, so with him having a couple million dollars cash, we’re able to do certain auctions that other people can’t do. Like county foreclosures, short sales… I also immediately reached out to wholesalers in my area, and immediately went to meetups. And here in Tallahassee, Florida they have meetups all over the place and real estate investors networks, and I just immediately walked in the door and started making contact with wholesalers. Wholesalers do amazing things for us… And it was pretty easy to get those first two deals. I found one and then a wholesaler brought me one.
Theo Hicks: Okay, what year was this?
Paul Tompkins: Yeah, that’s a great question. I’d probably say three or four years ago.
Theo Hicks: Okay, so three or four years ago. Okay.
Paul Tompkins: Yeah, ’16 maybe.
Theo Hicks: So how many deals — again ballpark here. You said you’re doing 30 to 50 a year now. But the first year, the second year, the third year, and the fourth year, what was the fix and lips?
Paul Tompkins: When I was part-time, I was probably doing 15 a year, consistently. 12 to 15 first year, second year. And then when I went full-time, I would say I was probably 15 my first year, the second year’s probably 25, the third year’s probably 40, and then the fourth year full-time is probably 40 to 50.
Theo Hicks: Okay. When did you start doing the rentals?
Paul Tompkins: Probably my third full year. And I didn’t jump into it. I encourage people not to just jump into rentals, because you’re tying money up, and your return is not as big. So the way I see it, Theo, is my business model is I flip, flip, flip, flip to get those big returns. Those 40k, 60k, 70k, 80k checks, and I fund my rentals through them. So I’ll flip, flip, flip, flip, have enough money saved up to go buy a rental with cash. So that’s kind of my business model. I probably buy one out of every seven or eight, I keep as a rental, and I get to cherry-pick them. And that’s what I like. Because all of them are coming in as fix and flip deals, so I’m buying them at 60 cents on the dollar. I get to do the renovation myself, so I know there’s a new roof, I know the A/C is good and warrantied, I know the flooring is a luxury vinyl plank, or tile, or whatever it may be. So when I turn it into a rental, it’s turnkey. I’m not going to have to touch this thing for a long time, unless it’s just simple cosmetics or something like that. So it allows me to cherry-pick and go after them, versus somebody saying, “Hey, there’s not a lot of equity in this, but it’s great as a rental because it’s making $300 a month.” That doesn’t do anything for me, I won’t buy it. I need a lot of equity in it, as well as a great rental per month.
Theo Hicks: Okay Do you buy them all cash and then you pull the cash out? Or does that cash stay in there?
Paul Tompkins: About half and half. I’m getting to where I’m leaving it all in there now. It’s just that the further along I get, I’m able to do that, and I don’t need as much cash. If I can leave it in there, I do. I can always pull a line of credit against it. And everybody thought I was crazy. Like two years ago, I went to this big conference out west, and there were all these mega flippers in there, and we went around the room, and they’re like talking about it, and everybody’s paying cash and pulling it right back out, or they’re doing money loans, or they’re doing this… And for me and my wife, our company, I’d rather feel like I’m broke right now while I’m young, and leave money in because then I get that whole rent check. If it’s a $1500 rent, I’m getting that whole rent check. It’s not, “Oh, I’m paying a $1200 mortgage, I’m getting $300, and then after taxes and insurance, I’m getting 100 bucks.” That’s just not worth it to me.
So when COVID hit, that’s where everybody understood where I was coming from. And they’re like, “Now we see.” Because I didn’t have a bank come to me and say, “Hey, we’ve got to do this,” or “Hey, this line of credit is going away,” or somebody can come and take my house. I never want it to where… Like 2008, when that happened, the bank was in control of my life. They said, “I want my $900 per mortgage, or we’re taking the house back.” When I leave my cash in it, no one can do that to me. So it’s just where I’m at in life. Other people, they’re just getting started, they’re, “Hey, I just want to pull that cash out, go do another one…” I have enough cash to where I’m doing enough flips right now, that I don’t need to do more flips. Or I really don’t even desire to hit 100 or 200, because that’s a lot more stress. I’d rather find bigger spreads. I’d rather find better deals than more deals.
Theo Hicks: How do you know how much money to take out for yourself to live off of? Is it just the rental income? Is it a portion of the flip profits? Do you live off the profit of a flip per year? How do you approach that?
Paul Tompkins: That is an awesome question. I’ve never had anybody asked me that man, that’s great. The funny thing is, when we first started, we said, “Hey, we know we can live off this dollar amount. So for the first so many years, we’re not going to increase our salary.” So if I know I can live off $80,000, me and my wife, why would I live off like I’m making $4 million? So what we did is we actually hired a payroll company that writes us a check, takes all our taxes out, like I’m a regular employee for my own company. And she gets a check, and I get a check, twice a month. So there is no, “Hey, I just made 80 grand on this house. It’s my cash, it’s my money.” No, that’s already reinvested. Because when I sell that house – let’s say I make $80,000 – I already have a percentage set aside that goes towards my next fix and flips. And I have another percentage set aside for my rentals. And as I get older, my rental side is going higher than my fix and flip. Because my fix and flip, I always have that money; so I’m doing more rentals, to where I have more mailbox money coming in. I consider it like retirement money.
Theo Hicks: That’s fantastic. Is it pretty easy to set that up with the payroll company? You can reach out and…
Paul Tompkins: It took me 30 minutes. It’s a payroll company here in Tallahassee. They say “How much do you want to pay yourself?” I think I started at $2,500 a month, and then my wife was getting $1,500 a month. So we were making four grand, we were around the $50,000 mark, and I think we’ve only increased it once.
For us, we’re okay living like that. Now I do write a lot of my travel, and expenses, and stuff off through my business, because it’s obviously real estate related. But as far as personally, you never keep that money; that money, that profit, when it goes on the HUD, it says my company name and this amount of money – everybody sees that, the IRS sees that, and that that just goes right back into my company. So it never comes out into Paul’s pocket. It’s reinvested.
Theo Hicks: Really quickly, before the money question; I always ask people this question when they are in business with their significant other… What are some of the pros and the cons of working with your wife?
Paul Tompkins: Is she going to listen to this?
Theo Hicks: Yeah, act like she’s not going to hear any of this.
Paul Tompkins: Okay.
Theo Hicks: Just me and you.
Paul Tompkins: Actually, I get a lot of people ask me that stuff, and I didn’t realize how many people are married in real estate. I think it’s so cool. So pros… She does things I don’t want to do. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. She loves design, I don’t. She’s on Pinterest, she’s on design sites. She’s drawing out kitchens and knocking walls down, and showing me “Hey, Paul. This is what I want it to look like.” And then I’m kind of executing on that. Whereas I’m a guy… And I see a lot of our students do that. If it’s just a single guy in the business, they do it like a guy. They’re not going to knock the wall down, they’re not caring if the kitchen is beautiful and gorgeous. And just by changing knobs and hinges, how much it can change certain rooms, and stuff like that. I don’t think about putting all the doorknobs in the same color as the hinges, the same color as the doorstop. We’re guys, we’re like, “I don’t know, go to Ace Hardware and buy some doorstops. I don’t care what color they are.”
So she brings that excellence, I think, to our brand, into who we are. And she’s good at things that I’m not good at. And then I handle a lot of things that she doesn’t want to touch. She doesn’t care how the wall comes down. She doesn’t care about the engineer coming out. She doesn’t care about this, this and this, or the finance side of it. I’m doing budgets, I’m doing rehabs, I’m going in houses before we buy them and inspecting them. She doesn’t want to do that. She doesn’t feel safe sometimes doing it by herself.
So we just really complement each other, and the ball just kind of goes back and forth. I think one of the hard parts about it is you live with them, you work with them, you go on vacation with them… So it’s a balance you have to set up from the beginning, and saying, “Listen, I’m going fishing with the guys once a month. I’m going camping, I’m going this. When I’m doing that, you go do your thing. You go to the spa, you go hang out with your family, you could take a girl’s trip to the Bahamas.” And having that time… Her family lives two or three hours away, so she could go there on the weekends. I’m still here, I’m out hunting, doing my thing, she’s there with her family, she’s getting refreshed, I’m getting refreshed, doing what I like… And it’s just balance.
Theo Hicks: Okay, Paul, what is your best real estate investing advice ever?
Paul Tompkins: Take a step. And it sounds so simple… My students, I’m just like, “Take a step, take a step, take a step.” Whether it’s the very first one, or it’s like “How do I go from 10 houses at a time to 20?” Take that initial step. And I know it sounds simple, but it’s the same as going to the gym. Like “Well, I need to go to the gym.” Take a step, go get a membership. Take a step, fill up your car with gas so you can make it to the gym. Take a step, eat a protein shake. So for us, it’s take a step, no matter what it is. If it’s in your first rental, “Well, I don’t know how to do it.” “Take a step, go buy an online course. Go listen to a podcast. Do something that gets you closer to your dream.” And for us, if we just take a step every day, that’s 365 steps a year. That’s a lot of steps towards your goals.
Theo Hicks: Yeah, that’s solid advice. Alright, Paul. Are you ready for the Best Ever lightning round?
Paul Tompkins: Let’s do it. I didn’t even know there was a lightning round. Yeah, I did [unintelligible [00:22:47].16] [laughs]
Theo Hicks: Okay. First, a quick word from our sponsor.
Theo Hicks: Okay, Paul. What is the Best Ever book you’ve recently read?
Paul Tompkins: Oh, Capital Gaines by Chip Gaines.
Theo Hicks: The guy in HGTV?
Paul Tompkins: Yeah. You can see where he came from, what he’s still going through, but he also has a lot of vision for the future. And I like that. A simple read kind of guy, but it’s packed full.
Theo Hicks: If your business were to collapse today, what would you do next?
Paul Tompkins: Start it up again.
Theo Hicks: What’s the deal you’ve lost money on? How much did you lose and what lessons did you learn?
Paul Tompkins: Yes. I only lost money on one deal. I had just got done the renovation and listed it, and a week later a hurricane hit and flooded the house four feet. So I had to do the renovation twice. And I only lost $8,000.
The lesson I learned, which I don’t even know if I learned it, because you can’t buy hurricane insurance in every single house, especially when they’re not near the water… So I don’t know if I would still put insurance on the property, and I still don’t… I still carry insurance on all my properties though. If you’re near water, get hurricane insurance, I guess.
Theo Hicks: On the flip side, what’s the best deal you’ve done?
Paul Tompkins: For me, it’s more about my students. What’s the best deals they’ve done. I just had a student make $98,000 two weeks ago on a deal. For me, I do deals where I make $100,000 or $200,000 twice or three times a year. When you do that many deals… But for my students, I love it when they crush it. I have a student getting ready next week to make about $130,000 on a spread. And this is pure profit. So for me, it’s when my students win, I win. Because I know I’m teaching them right, I know they’re getting value out of what I’m teaching, and there are relationships there… So, them winning is huge.
Theo Hicks: What’s the Best Ever way you like to give back?
Paul Tompkins: Oh, good one. We have an outreach that we do, it’s called Flipping to Impact; it kind of matches our name. And we’ve always done it. It’s something that’s been in our DNA. And it doesn’t matter what somebody needs, we’re there for them, especially in our own community, where when COVID hit and schools shut down, there were kids that couldn’t get meals. And we went up to a local restaurant that was struggling… I live in a small town outside Tallahassee, so there are not that many restaurants; I think three. And one of them was struggling real bad, and I’ve made a partnership where I said, “Hey, you make all the meals and you feed all these kids that don’t have any food, and we’re going to fund it and pay for everything.” So things like that.
We build wheelchair ramps in our community for elderly people, and stairs, and fix some houses. So we’re constantly giving back, and I think that’s where we get our blessings from. I know somebody is looking down on us saying, “Hey, if they’re just going to keep giving and giving, I’m going to keep blessing them.” And I don’t do it because of that. I feel like that’s just who we are as people.
Theo Hicks: And then lastly, what’s the Best Ever placed to reach you?
Paul Tompkins: Oh… Social media is the easiest. Flippin Experts – go on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. Our website, if you’re interested in anything real estate that we just talked about, they can go on our website at flippinexperts.com; there’s no g, pretty simple, flippinexperts.com. Check out what we have. If we can help them, we will. Happy to give them a discount on your behalf of 10%. So I’ll send you that information, and you can put that in your show notes and all that. But any way we can bless them; we have a lot of free training, we have other training that they can pay for at a monthly subscription that’s very cheap… So it’s just any way we can help them, we’re all about it.
Theo Hicks: Perfect, Paul. Well, thanks for joining me and telling us about your interesting, unique journey to where you are today. I always love hearing the origin story. We also talked about a lot of practical things as well. We talked about the power of connections and how once you’re ready to get back in the game, it was almost like a flip of the switch because of all the connections you had, with hard money and previous wholesalers. You also talked about how you find your deals, auctions because of your ability to buy all cash; wholesalers, meetup groups…
And then you talked about your business plan is basically cherry-picking the best fix and flips to keep as rentals, buying them all cash so that you get that big rental check… But also going back to the lesson you learn from ’08, from your previous business being closed down, is to not be controlled by somebody else. That’s why you buy properties all cash, and it paid off during COVID, that’s for sure.
And we talked about how you pay yourself, with the payroll company. And then you gave us some advice on how to work with a significant other, which I think that advice can apply to just relationships in general, about setting expectations.
And then lastly, your best advice was to take one step every single day, whether you’re starting out, or a step to scale your business. So Paul, thanks again for joining us, I enjoyed our conversation. Best Ever listeners, as always, thank you for listening. Have a Best Ever day and we’ll talk to you tomorrow.
Paul Tompkins: Thanks, Theo.
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