JF1819: He Just Quit His Full Time Job To Be A Full Time Real Estate Investor with Sean Pan
Sean is joining us today to share his real estate investing story. We’ll hear how he acquired his first deal, how he evaluates his flips, and ultimately how he was able to scale his own real estate investing business to a level that sustains his lifestyle and he was able to quit his full time job! If you enjoyed today’s episode remember to subscribe in iTunes and leave us a review!
Best Ever Tweet:
“I lost so much money on a deal that I ended up in Bloomberg magazine” – Sean Pan
Sean Pan Real Estate Background:
- Real estate investor located in the Bay Area
- Started his real estate investing career by buying a small portfolio of cash flowing rentals in Jacksonville, Florida and has since completed 5 flips in the Bay Area
- Based in San Francisco, CA
- Say hi to him at seanpanrealtyATgmail.com or www.everythingrei.com
- Best Ever Book: Best Ever Apartment Syndication Book by Joe Fairless
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Joe Fairless: Best Ever listeners, how are you doing? Welcome to the best real estate investing advice ever show. I’m Joe Fairless, and this is the world’s longest-running daily real estate investing podcast, where we only talk about the best advice ever, we don’t get into any of that fluffy stuff.
With us today, Sean Pan. How are you doing, Sean?
Sean Pan: How’s it going, Joe? Thanks a lot for having me on your show today.
Joe Fairless: Well, it’s going well, and you’re welcome. I’m looking forward to our conversation. A little bit about Sean – he’s a real estate investor located in the Bay Area. He started his real estate investing career by buying a small portfolio of cash-flowing rentals in Jacksonville, Florida, all across the country. And since he has completed five flips in his backyard, in the Bay Area. With that being said, Sean, do you wanna give the Best Ever listeners a little bit more about your background and your current focus?
Sean Pan: Absolutely. Thanks again. My name is Sean Pan, I started as an engineer over in Los Angeles, making satellites for the government. I just realized over some time that this isn’t where I wanted to be 30 years down the road, and I wanted to find a way to get that financial freedom and be able to do things that I wanted to do. And that’s how I stumbled into real estate investing, and that’s how I stumbled into purchasing cash-flowing properties over in Jacksonville, Florida, and then later on I moved over up to the Bay Area. The Bay Area is a little bit different. People here are more interested in flipping homes. And just by hanging around so many flippers, I became a flipper myself.
Joe Fairless: Did you have a full-time job when you bought that portfolio in Jacksonville?
Sean Pan: Exactly right. I had a full-time job, I was saving money…
Joe Fairless: Do you still have it, or are you doing this full-time now?
Sean Pan: Actually, I just put my two weeks in…
Joe Fairless: Alright, congratulations!
Sean Pan: Yeah, thank you so much.
Joe Fairless: Wow! Alright, so you had your full-time job when you found the cash-flowing properties in Jacksonville, and then I interrupted you. Sorry, I just wanted to ask you… So please, continue.
Sean Pan: So then I started hanging out with a lot of flippers in the Bay Area, going to a lot of the meetup groups in the area, and learning how to flip properties, and that’s just how I got into flipping houses.
Joe Fairless: Okay. Let’s rewind a little bit to the Jacksonville portfolio. When I say portfolio, I’m just repeating what I see in the show notes. What exactly did you purchase?
Sean Pan: Right now I have two single-family homes and one fourplex.
Joe Fairless: Okay, so two singles, one fourplex – six total units. What was the total purchase price?
Sean Pan: Oh, geez. First one was about $80,000, the second one was an auction home, so $40,000 on that one; we’ve put another 15k to rehab that one. And then the last one was a fourplex we bought for about 250k.
Joe Fairless: Okay, so 250k fourplex, and 80k, and what was the other one?
Sean Pan: 40k.
Joe Fairless: 80k and 40k. One was from an auction?
Sean Pan: Yeah.
Joe Fairless: So you bought them separate times then.
Sean Pan: Exactly. It’s a portfolio that I bought over time.
Joe Fairless: Okay, cool. Auction – that was your second purchase?
Sean Pan: You know how it goes, when you buy the first one, you just want another deal…
Joe Fairless: Right, of course.
Sean Pan: So I bought my first one and I was like “Alright, this is pretty good.”
Joe Fairless: The $80,000 one?
Sean Pan: Exactly. I was like “It’s pretty good.” I bought it for 80k and it rents for $900. About the 1% rule, so… Good enough. My friend said he had a connect who actually worked on Auction.com, and he has a list of what the banks actually want for a property… So even though something says $60,000 as the estimate, they know that banks only want 40k, so I was like “Alright.” I put in a bid at 40k and we got it.
Joe Fairless: Okay. What did you do with the property once you purchased it, in terms of renovations and renting it out, or costs, the rent price, all that stuff?
Sean Pan: My property manager – he’s a god-sent. He took care of everything, basically. He went in there, it was a wreck. There was someone living there, a squatter. Luckily, we were able to do cash for keys. He just got six crisp $50 and just kind of wafted it in her face, like “You want these? Get out.” So she did, she got out for only $300, so we got pretty lucky there.
A $15,000 remodel in Jacksonville goes a very long way. We rehabbed it and we were able to rent it for $850.
Joe Fairless: Good for you. So all-in 55k, and… Six $50 bills? Did I hear that right? So $300. So all-in $55,300. And you are renting it for $800?
Sean Pan: Yeah, $850.
Joe Fairless: $850, sorry. I didn’t mean to short-change you on that. Okay. And then you bought a fourplex.
Sean Pan: Then I bought a fourplex.
Joe Fairless: How long ago was this?
Sean Pan: This was about two years ago.
Joe Fairless: Only two years ago? Alright. What were the numbers on the fourplex? You said you bought it for 250k. What about rehab and income that it generates?
Sean Pan: That one was pretty stable already. When I bought it, it was going for about $650/door. After we turned the units, now it’s about $750/door. Again, my property manager is the one that is doing all the work. Of course, we do repairs here and there, but nothing too major on the fourplex.
Joe Fairless: Okay, so you haven’t put substantial money into it for cap ex, or anything. You just bought it for 250k and you’ve been making any improvements from the cashflow of the property.
Sean Pan: Right.
Joe Fairless: Okay. What type of financing did you get on each of the three?
Sean Pan: The first one I wanted to get the deal. It was actually listed for 100k and I said “How can we negotiate down?” So I actually bought it with cash, and then we did delayed financing. So after we closed with cash, then I did a loan to get paid back.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: The second one was a pure cash play.
Joe Fairless: Sure, yeah.
Sean Pan: The third one was traditional financing. For multifamily it was 25% down.
Joe Fairless: Okay. Have you since put a loan on that $40,000 auction house?
Sean Pan: I was going to, but then I got too lazy. And it cash-flows good enough, so it’s just there.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, I hear ya. So you’re in San Francisco, these properties are in Jacksonville. How did you end up in Jacksonville?
Sean Pan: I’ve been going to all these real estate meetup groups, and consistently Jacksonville hit those top ten “Best markets to invest in”. All of the other ten, I was like “I’m not sure about the weather here, I don’t know about snow, I don’t know about tornados…” And I thought, “Oh, Florida. It’s sunny, hurricanes aren’t that common”, and of course, after I bought them, Irma hits, and the other one recently hit as well… But luckily, none of my stuff got affected.
Joe Fairless: What type of expenses do you have on the properties, in terms of anything that is higher than what would be in other areas, to the best of your knowledge? For example insurance, or property management fees. You said your manager is really good. Can you just talk a little bit about that?
Sean Pan: Sure. I’m not gonna lie, I’m pretty sure I’m paying more for my property manager. I’m paying him 10% a month. But it’s worth it. Property management is a hard job, and at the end of the day, what’s 10% of a couple thousand dollars, right? Versus 8% that some people get.
Insurance is definitely higher because of the hurricane risk. It’s about $1,000 per door.
Joe Fairless: Okay. When you take a look at your portfolio in Jacksonville, you are cash-flowing, and it’s making you some money. Why did you decide not to continue to build that out in Jacksonville, and instead focus your efforts on San Francisco flips?
Sean Pan: I’m sure everyone has the same story, where they love buying rentals, but after a certain point they run out of capital. So what do you do after that?
Joe Fairless: Yeah, details… Right.
Sean Pan: You could raise the money, which I had no capability of doing that at the time, because I didn’t know anything about it… So I thought “How can I get more capital?” By hanging around investors here, there are a lot of people that I know personally that are making over seven figures a year flipping homes here in the Bay Area. And just talking to them, learning the strategies, it seemed “Okay, not too bad.” That’s why I focused on that.
Joe Fairless: Let’s talk about the first flip. What are the numbers, and – will you tell us about the project?
Sean Pan: Oh, yeah. The first flip was so interesting, because I spent maybe two years spinning my tires, sending out letters, cold-calling people, and nothing was happening. But it just so happened that I used to volunteer at a meetup group, and my co-meetup volunteer, my friend who sat next to me every time, she had a deal that she couldn’t handle because she had too much on her plate already… And she actually sent it to the other investors who didn’t want it, because I guess the numbers looked tight for them. For me, I knew the area pretty well, I thought it was pretty good, so I jumped in with her. We partnered on the deal.
We bought that one for 865k. 865k for a rehab, which might surprise a lot of your listeners, because to us that’s really cheap, for you guys it’s super-expensive.
We’ve put about 75k into it – complete rehab, changed everything; kitchen, bathrooms… And when we sold it, we sold it for 1.4 million dollars.
Joe Fairless: That’s a big profit.
Sean Pan: Yeah. So we got a huge profit on our very first deal. So here I am, sitting pretty, thinking “Oh, making money is easy.”
Joe Fairless: Well, let’s talk about it. You bought it for 865k, right?
Sean Pan: Yup.
Joe Fairless: And how much did you put into it?
Sean Pan: 75k.
Joe Fairless: 75k. So you’re all-in for less than 950k, and you sold it for 1.4. What were your carrying costs?
Sean Pan: We paid 2.5 points upfront, and I believe it was 9% annualized interest.
Joe Fairless: Do you know what roughly that amount totals up to be?
Sean Pan: I don’t remember the exact details on that one.
Joe Fairless: 50k, 20k, 100k?
Sean Pan: Probably about 30k… Because we held it for only three months.
Joe Fairless: Yeah, so you all killed it on this one.
Sean Pan: Oh yeah.
Joe Fairless: What do you think the difference was between what people at your meetup were seeing and what you saw?
Sean Pan: First of all, the other investors – they get tons of deals that come on their table, so they’re able to cherry-pick the very best ones. And of course, when you’re at the high level, everyone’s super risk-averse, so if they don’t need to take on a deal, they won’t take it. This one I guess just didn’t fit their criteria, and at the time maybe the [unintelligible [00:11:34].28] was a little bit smaller.
We definitely got even luckier, because when we bought it, and to the point where we sold it, the market actually increased about $100,000 in that neighborhood, just because it was so crazy at that time.
Joe Fairless: How did you line up the financing for this one on your very first flip?
Sean Pan: I reached out to my network on Facebook, asking if anyone knew a hard money lender. When you’re brand new and you have no connections, it’s pretty hard to get stuff done. But I was able to connect with a hard money lender down in South California, who worked with me even though it was my first deal.
Joe Fairless: Cool. Alright, so that was the first one. Then out of the five that you’ve done, which one was the least profitable or not profitable?
Sean Pan: You wanna hear some horror stories?
Joe Fairless: Yes, please.
Sean Pan: Alright, here’s some horror stories. Actually, my latest claim to fame is that I lost so much money on a deal that I ended up on Bloomberg Magazine. You may know me as that guy that lost a bunch of money on a flip.
Joe Fairless: Okay, I haven’t read it, so please elaborate.
Sean Pan: I’ll send you the link later on.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: Alright, long story short – for people who wanna skip to the end…
Joe Fairless: We don’t need to skip to the end. [unintelligible [00:12:44].15]
Sean Pan: Alright, we’re not gonna skip to the end; I’ll tell you the story. I bought this house in May of 2018. This is the peak of the market last year. This property was two blocks away from Apple’s brand new campus. Beautiful location.
Joe Fairless: Seems like a home run so far.
Sean Pan: Seems like a home run so far. The property was at first listed on the MLS for two million dollars; they contacted us because that house was sitting on the market and no one was buying it. So we went over and we thought “MLS property? There’s no way this is gonna be worthwhile.” But we dug deeper. We saw “Oh, the listing agent is from Turlock”, which is like two and a half hours away from where the property is located, so he wasn’t gonna come over to do open houses. He said “No open houses. If you wanna go inside the house, contact the seller directly.” No one’s gonna do that for a two million dollar house.
Second of all, he took pictures with a very old camera, and they didn’t even stage the property. They were still living there. So all that combined, we thought – okay, this is the reason why it’s not moving. It’s just unattractive because it’s marketed incorrectly.
Down the street there was a home that was being listed for 2.5 million dollars. Our house is a little bit smaller. We thought our ARV could be 2.2-2.3 million dollars. So based on our numbers, we thought “Okay, if we can get it for 1.8 million or lower, that’s a slam dunk right there.
Joe Fairless: Yup.
Sean Pan: So we actually put an offer for 1.7, kind of low-balling for a little bit, and they straight up rejected us. I was reading this book by Chris Voss called Never Split the Difference. Have you heard of that one before?
Joe Fairless: I have, I interviewed him.
Sean Pan: Yeah, great book. So he says that if you wanna negotiate and you want a lower number, use actual numbers. So you don’t end your bid with 000 in the thousands, because that just seems like you pulled that number out of nowhere. So instead we bid 1,747,923. I remember that number because it’s so weird…
Joe Fairless: [laughs]
Sean Pan: And when they got that offer, they looked at it like “What is this number? How did they settle on this number?” And they accepted it. Then the listing agent said “Alright, they accepted it. Write up the offer.” And so right there I was shocked. I was like “Oh my goodness, this guy doesn’t realize that we intended to use him as the buyer’s agent to represent us.” He told me to write the offer, and I have a license but I don’t really practice, so I learned on the spot how to write a contract. And just by doing that, we gained an extra $45,000, because we got 2.5% of that sales price.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: So we thought we were sitting pretty. We basically got this house that we wanted for 1.8, for about 1.705 all-in.
Joe Fairless: Alright.
Sean Pan: So we thought we were good. There was a house across the street that someone was trying to wholesale for 1.825, that was in a worse condition, and on a smaller lot. Long story short, we thought we were great.
But then we started getting creative; we thought “What if we take down this wall here? What if we make an open kitchen layout?” That involves getting architects, and structural engineers, and more inspectors. All that stuff takes time. So after being delayed and working on this project for months, finally we were ready to go on the market.
Joe Fairless: What did you do that you hadn’t done in previous projects, that took a little bit longer, besides knocking down a wall?
Sean Pan: That’s basically it. We’d never worked with architects before, we didn’t realize that structural engineers could hold you back so long… Just all these serial tasks make it so that you project goes longer that you need it to be.
Joe Fairless: So how long did it take from when you had it under contract to when you were listing it?
Sean Pan: We bought it in middle of May, and we listed it in the first week of November.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: We thought we’d be in and out within two months, and here we are 4-5 months later…
Joe Fairless: So a total of 4-5 months…
Sean Pan: Yeah. But the thing about that is that’s when the market turned. See, peak to trough in our area was a 25% drop… From the hot of June 2018 to the low of November 2018. 25% delta. And when we listed the property, that same weekend we had these fires up in Paradise, California.
Joe Fairless: Oh, yeah…
Sean Pan: No one was walking around, or wanna go to open houses. I laughed that I was going to a restaurant with my friend and I was like “How come we don’t have to get a reservation today? It’s great.” So after a while — this house just sat on the market, no one was looking at it…
Joe Fairless: What’s a while?
Sean Pan: Surprisingly, a while was only two weeks.
Joe Fairless: Okay… [laughs]
Sean Pan: In the Bay Area if your property isn’t sold within ten days, then there must be something wrong with it. There’s a stigma to this property now.
Joe Fairless: Alright…
Sean Pan: So people started finding excuses why no one else was bidding on it, and they said “Oh. I noticed this two million dollar property has no garage.” In the Bay Area garages aren’t necessary, and for the most part, people don’t park their cars in the garage. They park their stuff. So that became a big anti-selling point for most people. They said “Oh, I love that house. It’s beautiful, the location is great… Oh, but no garage? Deal-breaker.”
Joe Fairless: Did the one that was — I think you said 2.5… Did that have a garage?
Sean Pan: That one did have a garage. And that one ended up selling for only 2.3. Again, the market shifted, as well.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: And don’t get me wrong, this property has parking. This property has a lot of parking, it has a carport, and it has a giant shed in the back. But because of setback laws, we weren’t even able to add a garage if you wanted to.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: So we were basically stuck.
Joe Fairless: You said it has a carport?
Sean Pan: It has a carport.
Joe Fairless: Can you not enclose that?
Sean Pan: Unfortunately not, because of the setback laws.
Joe Fairless: Oh, alright…
Sean Pan: Yup. So basically it’s an overhang, but there’s no way I can add a wall in there because of setback laws.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: So we went over the winter break, we just kind of had it on the MLS… We decided to take it down for a whole month, so that we could reset the days on market, to make it seem like it’s a brand new listing…
Joe Fairless: Is that what it takes? You’ve gotta take it down for 30 days in order to do the reset?
Sean Pan: That’s correct.
Joe Fairless: Okay.
Sean Pan: And we put it back on the market and it was still not moving. And this whole time I’m paying holding costs on a 1.7 million dollar hard money loan.
Joe Fairless: Yeah… That’s rough.
Sean Pan: And I was laughing.
Joe Fairless: Especially due to the time of year, too. Because it’s not just a little downturn in San Fran, but I believe you’re in November, December, January at this point in time, which – that’s not exactly peak buying time.
Sean Pan: Yup. Seasonality affected us as well. It just wasn’t moving.
Joe Fairless: What were the holding costs every month?
Sean Pan: For that one property I was paying $11,500, not including staging costs, or utilities, or those beautiful green envelopes called “Supplemental taxes.”
Joe Fairless: So all-in what were you paying a month, would you say?
Sean Pan: I leased 12,5k because of staging, and then supplemental taxes are these beautiful, green envelopes that say “Hey, you owe these extra taxes based on what you’ve bought, and what the previous owner had to pay in taxes.” Those were like $15,000 checks as well.
Joe Fairless: How often?
Sean Pan: Those only happen once or twice. It’s not recurring.
Joe Fairless: Once or twice over 5-6 months?
Sean Pan: Like the year.
Joe Fairless: Oh, wow. Okay.
Sean Pan: Do you know what supplemental taxes are?
Joe Fairless: Educate me.
Sean Pan: Basically, when the previous owner bought the property, he probably bought it 20 years ago for $300,000, so he property tax is based on that $300,000, and based on a [unintelligible [00:19:57].11] that property tax can only increase by about 1% a year. So he was paying a couple thousand a year for his property. But now here I come, new buyer. I buy it for 1.7 million dollars, so now I owe property taxes on that 1.7 number, versus $300,000. So that delta of property taxes – they send you an envelope saying “We need you to pay that difference.” That comes in these green envelopes, and that’s called supplemental taxes.
So I got that one the day of my Thanksgiving party, and I was very unhappy. [laughter] It’s like, “Alright, Sean, another $15,000.” I was like “Damn it…!” [laughter] And don’t get me wrong, I did very well my first flip, I did well in my career and investing in other things, but at this time I was invested in multiple projects at the same time and they were all going south. So it wasn’t just this 11.5k. I was paying 30k total a month, all my holding costs.
I was joking, because I went to Asia and I was hanging out with a friend in Taiwan, and I was asking her about her base salary. And I was like “Oh my god, I’m paying your base salary in holding costs alone every single month… I kind of feel like a boss, it’s pretty cool.”
Joe Fairless: Right. [laughs] So then what happened with the deal.
Sean Pan: It did not move.
Joe Fairless: [laughs]
Sean Pan: We basically held it on the market for five months, from beginning of November until March. It didn’t move, so we had to drop the price significantly, get off the books, and fire-sale it. We eventually got someone who came in and offered us — the best offer we got was $100,000 less than what we even bought it for.
Joe Fairless: Okay… So 1.6…
Sean Pan: We got 1.675.
Joe Fairless: 1.675.
Sean Pan: Yeah. So imagine, a whole year’s worth of holding costs on hard money. All the repair costs that we did, and the purchase price. We basically lost $400,000 on this one project.
Joe Fairless: Was it someone who was moving in, or were they also a real estate investor?
Sean Pan: Oh no, it’s a family.
Joe Fairless: Okay. So it’s their primary residence.
Sean Pan: This is a primary residence. And when we checked up on it a couple weeks later, we saw that they were making even more renovations, so… We were like “Great! Good for them.”
Joe Fairless: [laughs] Well, they had a two million dollar budget, and they were able to get a really good deal, so they had some money invest back into the property.
Sean Pan: If you’re willing to sacrifice a garage – yeah, you can get a great deal in the Bay Area, apparently. And it’s funny, too – so I told my story on Bloomberg Magazine, I got published, it became the number one read article, I got a bunch of people listening to me… A lot of [unintelligible [00:22:32].06] obviously. Like, “Oh, this guy’s stupid.” But whatever, it was fun.
The agent who helped buy that house actually contacted me and now I’m gonna get lunch with him next week. So you might as well get a connection while you’re at it.
Joe Fairless: Right, exactly. What’s done is done. You’ve done five flips; what number was that?
Sean Pan: Number three. Basically, number three and four are losers. Number five – I’m still in it, and it’s probably gonna be a big L as well.
Joe Fairless: Okay. Well, taking a step back now, this is the perfect time for this question, “What’s your best real estate investing advice ever?”
Sean Pan: My best real estate investing advice ever is that real estate investing is a business. I think this is being said very often, but it needs to be taken more seriously. Think about creating Facebook or LinkedIn – you probably don’t do this on the side, or just part-time. If you’re gonna do this seriously, you do this with determination, and you do it with extreme focus. My biggest mistake was that I outsourced too much responsibility. I thought that it was easy based on the experiences on my first flip, where you can rely on the other party to take care of everything. But your money is at risk, so you should be the one making sure that you have everything in line, and make sure everything runs smoothly.
Joe Fairless: And on that deal number three, the main thing was the delay, where instead of two months you’re in and out, it was four to five months, and then you finally listed it. That wasn’t outsourcing the process, but it was incorporating a new part of a process… So was that your idea, to knock down the wall and then try and do a different layout, or was that someone that you spoke to and they were like “Yeah, we should do this” and you’re like “Yeah, sure, let’s roll with it”, and then you just kind of sat back and watched it unfold.
Sean Pan: I take full responsibility for everything that happened. I don’t remember if it was my idea per se to knock down that wall, but once we all agreed on it, we did it. But what I should have done is I should have followed up… Because we had some issues in the middle. Basically, in the plans there was a specific choice that needs to be put down for the foundation, and I guess the foundation width was different than planned… So the inspector said “Get the structural engineer to write this document.” It took that structural engineer about a whole month to do it, because he had his own personal issues going on, he had too much work… That ended up being only three sentences, but that delayed us by a whole month.
Joe Fairless: Oh, my…
Sean Pan: So if I knew about it, if I was there, I could have 1) talked to the structural engineer and say “Hey man, it’s three sentences. I’ll write it for you, you just sign it.” Or 2) I could have found another structural engineer.
Another thing is that I thought I knew a lot, because I was successful, but I didn’t. I thought that not having a garage was no big deal, because I grew up in the Bay Area, in a different city, but we don’t care about garages. But if it’s like a two million dollar home, now they have their nice-looking cars – they probably want a garage. I didn’t know about that. I was just learning as I was going.
Joe Fairless: We’re gonna do a lightning round. Are you ready for the Best Ever Lightning Round?
Sean Pan: Let’s do it! I know you’re ready. First, a quick word from our Best Ever partners.
Joe Fairless: Okay, best ever book you’ve recently read?
Sean Pan: The best ever book is the Best Ever Apartment Syndication Book by Joe Fairless!
Joe Fairless: Alright! You like that one, huh?
Sean Pan: I do, I do.
Joe Fairless: I’m glad to hear it. What’s the best ever deal you’ve done?
Sean Pan: The best ever deal is that first one I did in Sunnyville, where I made around $300,000 in profit.
Joe Fairless: Best ever way you like to give back to the community?
Sean Pan: Right now I am also a podcast host for the Best Ever Real Estate Investing Show. I’m also a meetup group leader, where I bring people together to talk about events and different strategies… And I love just giving back, and writing blog posts, and giving out free notes. When I go to conferences, I just give away free notes for everybody, because I know they’re too busy to take their own.
Joe Fairless: That’s cool. And what is the best way the Best Ever listeners can get in touch with you?
Sean Pan: The best way to get in touch with me is by sending me an email at email@example.com, or check out my website, everythingrei.com.
Joe Fairless: Thank you so much for sharing your story. I know you’ve shared it already; I wasn’t aware of your story, but clearly you’ve shared it already in other channels… But thanks for talking about it, and then talking about the lessons learned… And boy, that structural engineer comment really resonates with me, because it’s about being educated on the process, and then also being tenacious and following up with certain team members who are holding up the process and offering up some solutions to them.
Thanks for being on the show and sharing your wins and losses and lessons learned. I hope you have a best ever day, and we’ll talk to you again soon.
Sean Pan: Thank you, Joe. Take care.